Tanking Heroics

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Stephen51, May 8, 2020.

  1. Stephen51 Augur

    I play a 115 Paladin, but also have a 114 SK and 110 Warrior, with which I dabble. There is a lot going on in the game (and in RL), and when I read that for the group game, for Heroic stats the way to go was DEX for all the tanking classes, I took it as read and got on with the game.

    Now my PAL has over 2000 Heroic DEX, and I am wondering, is there a point where I have enough Heroic DEX?, have I reached it?, and what other Heroic stat should I be working on, if so?

    As an aside, I also wondered what differences there are in the other tank classes, is it Heroic DEX all the way also?
  2. Szilent Augur

    Your paladin will continue to gain dps from hDex (via melee crit rate) out to around 7k, along with the defensive benefit (a small bump to Parry rate) that comes with each 25 points. SK same. Warrior stops increasing substantial dps that way around 3000 instead.
  3. p2aa Augur

    Hdex > Hsta > Hagi for group content tanks
  4. Stephen51 Augur

    Thanks for your responses, although, I don't think anyone can hit 7000 in any one heroic stat even with raid gear in game at the moment. But I am going to assume from your comments that I should just keep piling on the DEX. The problem with the type 5 augs however, is the DEX augs, have a particularly weak STA stat.
  5. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    I have no idea what you're talking about with 7k heroic dex.

    Heroics are capped at +4000, at which point either we get nothing at all from them, or we just get +1 to the stat with no other benefit.
  6. Szilent Augur

    That's a strange thing to assert. +~3k is the practical limit with current items, but I don't recall any suggestion that heroics cap otherwise. Do you just mean their effect on mod2s like Strike Through & Shieldings? Those mod2s cap out, but the heroics don't. There will continue to be benefits to combat skill checks, HPs, what have you.
  7. Wulfhere Augur

    Perhaps he meant displayed Dex? I.e. Dex + hDex > 7000
  8. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    They told us heroics had scaled effects from +400-+4000 range when they implemented them (hAgi is still bugged though so I guess we'll never cap avoidance).

    While its possible some basic effects continue to scale after that point, I don't think its a reasonable assumption that they do, anymore than regular stats did after the original 255 cap or any other cap they had after that. I mean, even when they uncapped things from 255, you didn't get the same return on them after that point originally either. There was a point when +1 stamina was giving like 20% the return as the original sub 255 numbers, for example.

    Everything in this game has a hard cap somewhere, and we tend to reach it before they think to extend it. We've even seen us break things like HP caps in beta one year, something you'd think wouldn't cap at all.
  9. Sirene_Fippy Okayest Bard

    What's bugged about hAgi?
  10. Szilent Augur

    Yeah that's the mod2s that are listed specifically on the second tab of inventory. Those cap. The hero stats, according to all I've seen, will continue to have their own intrinsic benefits in uncapped fashion long, long past that. 16hp/hSta, dodge/parry benefit for each 25 hAgi/hDex (past a minimum that jumps up in each expansion), +1 melee damage per 10hStr (and an unparsable boost to shield AC), +mana per hInt/Wis & +mana regen per 25 hInt/Wis. And, yeah, boosting the cap to regular stats; that doesn't have the same effect going to 255 did in the days of 255, but piles of it do raise melee crit rate. If nothing else changed w/r/t buffs etc, it'd take Paladins about 7k hDex to get full time full melee crits. Like, without Auspice & things.
  11. p2aa Augur

    This was some player parse long time ago with much lower Hagi/Hdex numbers, I pretty much doubt it's still true with current heroic stats numbers.
  12. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Its 40 points of agility per point of avoidance.

    There is no way to hit 300/300 avoidance if they stop working at 4000 like ngreth stated.
  13. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Sorry, was looking at it wrong, 20 points of hagi per point I meant.

    Still, can't hit the cap.

    AFAIK, nothing was ever changed, here is my post from May 18, 2016 right after the change went live:

    "The mod2s that had their caps moved from 35 to 45% are scaling properly. At 400 and every 400 interval you gain 1 point.

    The others are not scaling right. They are supposed to scale evenly from 400 to 4000 according to the post, but do not seem to be.

    Damage shield mitigation (Hstr)

    It is starting at 400 and every 160 points, but this means that it maxes at +23 above the old cap (i.e. 48 cap instead of 50) at 3920 Hstr. - It should go up every 150 points, so you have 26 at 400 and hit 50 at 4000.

    Avoidance (Hagi)

    It is starting at 400 and every 20 points you gain one, but this means when it hits 4000 it is going to cap at 281 instead of 300. - It should go up every 18 points, so you have 101 at 400 and 300 at 4000.

    Accuracy (Hdex)

    It is starting at 400 and every 26 points you gain one, but this means you will cap at 289 accuracy at 3988 dex. It should go up every 24 points, so you have 151 at 400 and 300 at 4000.

    Combat Effects (Hdex)

    It is starting at 400 and every 160 points you gain 1, but this means you will cap at 123 accuracy at 3920 dex. It should go up every 150 points, so you have 101 at 400, and hit 125 at 4000.

    So it seems whoever did this failed at math =P"
  14. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    You need +4274 heroic dex to hit 300/300 accuracy.
    You need +4380 heroic agi to hit 300/300 avoidance.

    But if they stop giving bonuses at 4000....
  15. Yahsha Journeyman

    Everyone talking +4000 HStats like it's a thing.

    Best I can tell, the game limit as of ToV seems to be more in the +2800 range.
  16. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Two expansions at this rate and we'll hit the cap. Maybe 1 expansion if we get another big trophy or something.
  17. Heajol Augur

    I have a 110 paladin and looking at doing some EoK missions to start gaining type 5 augs. Right now she's in TBM slot 5s. Also currently I wouldn't say her type 5s are optimized. My heroic stats with gear, type 5 and type 7 augs has come out to HSta / HAgi being almost equal with HDex and HStr lagging behind a little.

    So reading this thread and others it is recommended that group tanks focus on HDex augs. I'm sorry but being newly back to the game and to Live servers, would someone mind taking the time to lay out the reasons why? My paladin is not my main source of DPS .. I'm also playing a monk who does about 40% of my group's average DPS. I do prioritize HDex for my monk. But for my paladin, my main goal is to be able to tank harder content .. Maybe start experimenting with ROS zones soon and eventually TBL/TOV zones and GMMs.

    I am working on AC type 7 augs, but that aside for the type 5s in particular .. why HDex when my paladin isn't focused on a DPS type role? Wouldn't HAgi help her tank better or HSta with melee shielding / HP? I don't have much past the auto grant AAs, no progressive AAs done, and I feel my limit is tanking ability, not DPS.

    Also - the last time I played a lot the mod2s were actual Avoidance / Melee Shielding etc so am new to heroic stats in general.
  18. Szilent Augur

    Parries from hDex are equivalent to dodges from hAgi. hDex's boost to procs (AA Blessing of Life, among others) and to melee crits beats the value on hAgi's marginal AC boost. If you find yourself getting one-shot by mob nukes, then maayybe consider going hSta for raw hp instead, but recognize that it's a sacrifice of necessity not a power move.
    Riou and Heajol like this.
  19. Riou EQResource


    Not to mention hDex also boosts Riposte chance too, since group content doesn't intentionally have 100% strikethrough like raids do the avoidances are more viable in the group game



    You should still try to boost the Paladins DPS it if you can, more DPS overall = faster mobs die that no longer have to be tanked = more mobs you can kill per unit time = faster EXP/farming, it raises your overall efficiency in every way
  20. Wulfhere Augur

    I think this assertion is incorrect. Blessing of Life proc rates haven't changed in years until ToV AA added a slight 5% boost (I haven't bought ToV ranks yet). Nor are other typical imbue procs (from buffs) affected.

    My imbue procs tend to rank in this order all the time:

    Combined: Icebound Avatar of War on 5/17/2020

    Wulfhere - 696
    --- Overdrive Punch - 88
    --- Banestrike - 77
    --- Blessing of Life XXIII - 49
    --- Merciful Fury Strike III - 44
    --- Jann's Light - 43

    Produced by GamParse v2.0.0.98 BETA
    Szilent likes this.