AA Balancing: 30000AA or 50000AA?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Beco, May 16, 2020.

  1. Beco Lorekeeper

    Some Classes get close to max AA when they reach 30000 AAs, while others have to grind close to (or even over?) 50000 AAs to get to their max power. What I would like to know: Is class balancing done around 30000 AAs grinded, or is class balancing done around max AAs. If the latter is the case, would that mean, that some classes have simply to grind 20000AAs more to get to the point where they are supposed to be?
  2. Tuco Augur

    I'd say that almost all classes are very close to their final form, AA-wise, once they get a few thousand correctly invested AA beyond what is auto-granted. Some more than others. I was astonished at how few useful healing AA that clerics have, where as berserkers have a tremendous number of DPS AA (that do very little...)

    The truth is that EQ has gotten so ability/buff based that characters don't get all that much stronger from AA once they get the key abilities they need because most everything is overshadowed by the skill of the player and their ADPS. Every class has a whole bunch of stuff that moves the needle, but not by much.

    The same is true of gear for a lot of classes. HP/AC scale fairly linearly, so tanks keep growing in tankability, but for most classes there are only a few items that really move the needle much. Those key items are their weapon for melee and the cleave arms, and the relevant focus effects for casters.

    For example, I have a 4x mage box group and a 3x berserker box group I play. In both cases one of the mages and berserkers are 100% fully AA'd and group geared while the other mages/berserkers are barely leveled/geared and have very few AA's. I play them almost identically and get pretty similar results. You can see some parses and vids here:

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...-critique-welcome.240258/page-22#post-3843410
    Randolpf Ragbottom in 419s, 292.4m @697942 |
    Lusa + pets@(176.2k in 414s) |
    Tucowind + pets@(145.3k in 411s)

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...-critique-welcome.240258/page-24#post-3851803
    Icebound Avatar of War in 512s, 563.5m @1100496 |
    Tucoh@(268.5k in 512s) |
    Tucos@(269.5k in 508s) |
    Tucoganesh@(228.9k in 510s)

    In these parses Lusa is 100% fully group geared/AA'd and did 176k DPS and Tucowind barely hit level 110 and had random gear and did 145k. Same for Tucos vs Tucoganesh (Tucoh is my warrior).
  3. Mazame Augur

    When you talk about balance you have to look at the class as a whole not one part.
    Yes some have more aa then other. Some have more spells then the rest. Some are more gear depend then others.

    you get X aa count on a tank with no gear compared the same aa on a melee with no gear. Even with both at the same aa count the melee will preform better because the tank is very gear depend.

    The next thing to consider is what the aa are for. some classes use many different skill tree and so they have more aa. for example a war doesn't need Healing aa so healers will have more aa then a war per say.

    As it been said most classes if spent will have what is needed around 20k aa. after that you have min maxing stuff and other stuff that not req. TS as an example are not req unless you want to do TS.

    So if your asking if classes are balanced the answer is no. Because AA is not everything. also EQ was made as a group game and so each class adds to the group as a whole. it not WOW where they balance every class to solo.
    Skuz likes this.
  4. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Having to grind out more AA used to be considered the price you pay for flexibility on hybrid melee, did that change?

    If anything I think Clerics get the short end of the AA stick as they are a very focused class which have a lot of AA yet do not have much flexibility at all.

    Berserkers, Rogues, Wizards they don't get huge AA tallies as they are very much focused on doing just one thing with a very focused tool-set.
    minimind likes this.
  5. Ofearl Slayer of all things Stupid

    I have a at shaman that is maxed and I dont think his power increased much in the last 10k ish aa. Where as my alt cleric is around 28k and I’m buying dps aa’s and such when that toon is only used for healing.

    Every class is different, so their max potential is going to be at a different poing also. If I’m playing that cleric and the tank is great and not needing much heals I could be useing more damage spells and meleing.
  6. Beco Lorekeeper

    So what I understand is: all above autogrand AA's is good for around 10% improvement for your char. To get these aditional 10% some classes have to grind around 10k AAs, whereas other classes need to grind 30k AAs to get these same 10% improvement.
    My concern is, that the difference from autogrant to max AA between classes is increasing from expansion to expansion, in my feelings in an exponential manner, whereas I can't see much benefit. For me it seems more as a burden for those, who have now to grind upto 50k AAs.
    "you got a pet? Even if it doesn't do more, than a running dot .... here you get 10k AAs to grind, to let it survive the mobs first AOe" ...
    "Your a hybrid class? So you will never shine either as healer nor as dps. Cheers: you have to grind 15k more aas because some 15 Years ago you choosed, to play a hybrid"
    I don't understand the immense difference in the amount of AAs to grind. It doesn't lead to the point that a hybrid can heal like a priest or dps like a pure dps, so why there are so much more AAs to grind?
  7. Sokki Still Won't Buff You!!

    Because they have those abilities. Whether or not they excel at them doesn't matter, the fact that they have that ability means they get AA's for it. Like Ofearl said, Shamans have almost 52k AA's at max now but a good 10k+ are not really needed. Just because they are available doesn't mean you have to focus on grinding them out, the Pet AA's are usually one of my lower priority AA's and are only bought after all my heal, dps, and defensive AA's are done. There are other lines that I put off till after even the pet ones are done. So while we do have one of the highest AA counts they are far from all being "Needed" and you can just ignore them until you have nothing else to spend AA's on.
  8. Greymantle Augur

    So my question is ..Why do they have to balance? Part of the game is making choices and living with the consequenses of that decision. If all classes and races were 'balanced' or equal to each other what would be the point of have them?