Why are we giving hackers and botters 2-3 strikes?

This statement says a couple of things to me:

1) Go ahead and use bots, you won't be truly punished until the SECOND time you get caught.

2) It's okay to try to break the boxing rules on aradune, you won't be punished until the THIRD time you are caught.

What's keeping me from running 3-6 boxes, pretending my wife and kid play with me, and seeing how long it takes to get caught (THREE times)? There is literally no reason an unscrupulous player would be deterred by this ruleset unless they are REPEATEDLY caught.

I suggest instantly banning people who use hacks/bots in your game (*GASP*) and getting rid of one of the two warning shots for breaking the box rule (realizing this is more difficult to police because honestly how do you know my wife isn't just autofollowing me with her two wizards and being a lazy player?)

I mean, are you asking honestly or just making a post to make a post?

They want to give the offending parties a chance to continue p(L)aying for revenue. Sure you'll get a few folks that get caught and say 'Meh, I'll have to try and be more sneaky!' and keep going til they are banned but most will probably react with an 'Oh wow, they're actually monitoring this - alright was worth the shot' and keep going with the two boxes.

Honestly there will probably be quite a bit of the breakers and benders for the first few weeks since there will be so many to try to monitor, which itself is sad because this is a game and in no way a real revenue generator unless you live in a third world country.

The goal of EQ is to generate income. Without the 'boxers' and 'botters' this company won't make enough revenue to continue operations. Best to not permabann paying customers without giving them a chance to rectify their violations.

if you're actually asking, its so they don't have to clarify on how rules are enforced (which never works, there's no such thing as bulletproof rule).

This way they can say "That's outside the rules, don't do it anymore". Those who violated the rules out of a good faith misunderstanding of where the line is drawn will stop what they're doing. Those who keep pushing will get banned.

Example that came up in discord the other day: What if I'm 2-boxing true style and my actual real roommate who plays with me autofollows me on a bard while afk. Lets also assume that the bard is home, but just not at the computer. Bard's other char is afk at a bank.

My char is running around with 2 chars on autofollow, my box and the roommates bard. Am I 3 boxing? I tend to follow the rules more conservatively so I would argue yes. Others will argue until they're blue in the face that they're not violating the rules. While I think this is outside of the rules, I wouldn't think this would be banworthy for a first offense. A warning that they're in danger of action being taken should be enough to stop the behavior in this case if a GM decides that's not okay.

If you start trying to imagine all of the ways people will try and get around the "1 human, 2 accounts" rule, you'll spend the rest of your life and still never come up with a bulletproof clear rule. There will always be someone out there who (intentionally or not) misunderstands the rule.

Giving out strikes permits rules without clearly defined edges that are easy to remember, without banning too many accounts.

No where in the post does it state that your house is allowed to play multiple groups of 2.

I changed the context to show how ridiculous the statement is. It's a factual statement accompanied by a biased view to support a flawed argument.

Legitimate players should be thankful for this. There will be false positives on the GM enforcement. There are going to be a lot of players on Aradune especially reporting everything that looks even a little suspicious. We don't know how the GM enforcement will work but in the past some of the methods they have used are pretty inane (eg showing up to a group that's been reported, sending a message to the group using /say, and then suspending if the players don't respond quickly enough.) Legitimate players playing just one or two characters will think they don't need to watch out for these sorts of things, because they aren't cheating, and won't always be ready to respond correctly if a GM shows up.

This helps to protect people who get hit with false positives, and also gives those who do break the rules pause for thought. Not all of them, but many will stop once they get caught to avoid getting a suspension or ban.

Imagine PLing a friend/guildy who is trying to catch up. If your friend is sitting afk soaking XP, will they consider that 3 boxing? There will be a lot of BS and drama surrounding this stuff, sigh.

Likely not to be a problem. They have ways of telling whether you're playing from the same physical location.

It's not against the rules for me to AF you forever. It's against the rules for 1 person to control more than 2 accounts. If they're not all logged in from the same location, there's no issue.

And yes. I understand there are network ways of confusing where you're coming from--anecdote: none of my personal friends who are going to be boxing will be using any of these methods. However, if all of the characters are always logged in at the same time, and always together in the same zone, it looks less like a "guildy" and more like a 3rd box.

But again. That's why there are warnings. If you're not breaking the rules, you don't have anything to worry about.

Worried about your friends who has you on AF? log out of on of your boxes until your AFK friend comes back.

People using VPNs and such are going to make determination based only on physical location more difficult. Hopefully, before taking action, these GMs will take the time to research logs and look for patterns as you suggest. If they were to just make calls on the spot, it won't be terribly hard to get hit with a false positive.

Dreamweaver does clarify in the announcement thread that it is 2 total accounts allowed per person and not per household.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...aunch-date-may-27.265570/page-18#post-3902076

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...aunch-date-may-27.265570/page-20#post-3902352

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...aunch-date-may-27.265570/page-20#post-3902453

They're actually all 3 statements of fact. Because a statement of fact doesn't have to be true, it just has to be provable as true or false. All 3 can be proven to be true or false provided you can obtain the information.

Then people will take steps to do things to make sure its clear they're not three boxing. Like not using separate VPN locations (i don't know how this works so please feel free to fill me in) or whatever.

Or they'll take risks, whine on the forums, and we'll all ignore them as we do.

Just as with everything else, if you're worried what you're doing is against the rules, then you should do your research and see if there's clarity out there. If its not clearly permitted, then you're risking consequences and you'll know why you picked up your warning.

Dunno about botters/hackers, but I'm a big fan of moving anyone caught 3+ boxing to Rizlona. A straight move would require a lesser burden of proof from the GMs than an outright ban.

I also think 2-box enforcement would be a lot easier if they didn't provide 3+ boxers an easy excuse by saying their wife and kid are helping them 6box efreeti at 3AM in the morning.

Big mistake was making it 2 box, now they have a CS nightmare about to unfold.
Should have just been able to box up to a full group.
Anyone caught botting / warping / hacking is auto moved, anyone that appears to be boxing 6+ is auto moved.

Less headache and we all know the issue was the automated bot teams, not that guy that is boxing 2 - 6 guys with what appears to be random key presses.

agree. is there any data around that shows how much krono is purchased 'legitimately' via daybreak per week/month? i suspect not, but i'd be very curious to see what that looks like.

You can 6 box all you want on Rizlona. They don't need perfect enforcement to create the environment the players are looking for. Clear rule violations will get taken out. Closer calls will get cleared up with warnings.

Have to assume that DPG will be hiring someone with at least (i) some MMO CS experience or (ii) medium-good judgment. In any case, there will be a few dozen posts here within the first few weeks of people feeling unjustly banned (or where no action was taken when action was warranted) and we'll have all the clarity we need.

I'd rather they have a medium-poorly enforced 2box server than a perfect 6-box server.

Hackers and botters are not getting 2-3 chances. They don't even get 1 chance. The first offense, they get suspended. The 2nd offense they get banned.

You seem to be equating boxing with that, which is where your argument completely falls apart.

Dont worry they're gms aren't planned for once velious launches anyways!