Test Update 05/12/2020 - Patch Notes and Discussions

Discussion in 'Test Update Notes and Bug Roundup' started by EQ Dev, May 12, 2020.

  1. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    it is "no skill" as in, it doesn't check ANY skill, and it's a guaranteed combine with 0 chance at failure. Internally it's called a "Non-Dusting" container. Unlike many quest containers which are "dusting" as in, "They turn to dust when you make the combine" I.E. the container disappears when the combine is complete.
    Jennre likes this.
  2. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    So EQtraders is wrong then and it is not pottery.

    I take it it also means that the items used in making armor (final combine) mediums, Snowbound velium etc shouldn't have the TS flag either, I'm sure there have also been some in previous expansions as well, as they don't check a skill either and are no fail combines
  3. Ngreth Thergn Developer

    EQ Traders is not a Daybreak or Darkpaw property and is run by fans. You'll need to consult with them to see if they care to make changes to their website.
    Jhenna_BB, GNOME_POWER, Skuz and 2 others like this.
  4. Imukai Augur

    Being "No Fail" does not mean it is not used in a tradeskill. By that logic, Spider Silk should not be marked as a tradeskill item as it is a No-Fail combine in a sewing kit.

    Being combined in a "quest container" (Glaze Mortar) does not mean it is not used in a tradeskill. That just means that container doesn't have a stored recipe list and anything combined in it has to be done manually.

    The tradeskill flag is an indicator to the player that the item is used in a tradeskill so they don't blindly sell it to a vendor. Each of these items are bloody rare to have drop in the first place.

    To argue that they are "not a tradeskill item" because of some notion that the container used to combine them doesn't require any skill to use ... is pedantic at best. Glaze Mortar is a pottery implement.

    That it doesn't "dust" is semantic and a design decision. Sewing kits don't dust on their combines either (fail or no-fail) That it doesn't require skill is a design decision, as other containers have no-fail recipes. That what you are making is used in a tradeskill is irrefutable -- therefore the components should be marked as tradeskill items.

    Your game, your authority, your decisions to make -- I just 1000% feel this was the wrong side of the fence for you to pee on. If I am alone in that opinion, so be it.
    Leigo, Cacky, Yinla and 7 others like this.
  5. Tucoh Augur

    You're not, it's the wrong way to define tradeskill item, but who cares?
  6. Moege Augur

    x Doubt
  7. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    I agree that removing the tradeskill flag on PoP Glaze components isn't really a logical change.

    If they want it included in a tradeskill I would say convert those glaze components to Baking no-fail combines in a mixing bowl.
  8. yober Elder


    So isn't Selo supposed to be getting 4x keys then? We got 2-3x in Underfoot and are only getting like 1.5x in HoT.
  9. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    This please x1000%

    The flag is there to tell us it's a tradeskill item. These are tradeskill items regardless of the failure rate.
    Daedly, Caell and Pawtato like this.
  10. Zalamyr Augur


    There is one upside to having the lines block each other, and that's not requiring necros to gather up rank III spells from several expansions back. This probably doesn't bother some people, but I've always thought it was a bad design for the many classes forced to do this.
  11. Forcallen Augur

    I have zero issue with him now preventing us from using older lines, it can be a good thing. But he needs to offset the gains we are seeing upfront with reductions to other no stack dot lines on the back end AND he needs to consolidate some of our dot lines.

    He can't just combine 3 dots into 1 while simultaneously doubling or tripling the damage of other dot lines we werent using, that then just get casted in place of the older 2 casts. As we still use just as many dots and he gave us a jump in bonus damage without realizing he was giving us bonus damage.
    Szilent, menown and Sancus like this.
  12. Triconix Augur

    You're arguing semantics when it's an internal development code. It's not marked a trade skill item because it doesn't require a tradeskill to make. It doesn't mean it's not used in tradeskills. You, and many people here, are using the term interchangeably, which is what Ngreth is pointing out. In this case, the people arguing for it being a tradeskill item are wrong. That's not what the label was for. It was for what Ngreth explained.

    What people are getting their panties in a bunch about is a definition that was interpreted incorrectly. It's quite hilarious how people like you forced Ngreth to waste his time on something so innocuous and inconsequential. So congratulations for using a term incorrectly and then complaining about it and wasting a dev's time, not only by having to make these "fixes" but explaining it multiple times.
    Sokki and Skuz like this.
  13. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    They will stay in the bags until you move them.

    Why would they add them? You can still do the no fail no skill combine in the container.
  14. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    People arguing about the TS flag just make me laugh. For the love of god, get over it. It was inconsistent before, now its consistent. You not liking it doesn't make it wrong.

    Maybe he should just delete the containers from game and stick a turn in task on an npc to exchange the components for the result, would that make you happy?
  15. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Doesn't include conversions I hope?

    But this ends the pay to win complaints. You can only do 10 quests every 12 hours.

    A little dumb IMO, was easy money for them, and they are giving it up.
  16. Zalamyr Augur


    Totally agree there, necros have enough current level cap DoT lines to not really change the debuff slot problem. I hoped they were going to fix that with RoS and then again with ToV. Once those level cap expansions dropped, it felt like it's too late to fix that though, sadly. Removing spell lines, after people already spent time/resources acquiring them would likely be pretty unpopular, even if it would be worth it in the end.
  17. Swiss Augur

    I don't think you understand the spell line limit. Not trying to be rude in any way just look at other classes currently on live if it helps. Each necro will have 1 spell from each line when it's done, not 1 spell for all necros. Look at shaman dots on live, you can have multiple of the same spell from different players just not the 105, 110, and 115 dot from 1 player.
    svann, Jennre and Skuz like this.
  18. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Instead of merging/removing spell lines entirely, they could sort of do what was done with swift dots. By putting a recast timer longer than the DoTs duration that is timer linked between two different swift DoTs you have to pick the resist preference you want. Fire vs Magic, Disease vs Poison etc.

    Now this would be a very bad solution to put long recasts on the longer duration DoTs, but in lieu of doing timer linked recast and longer recasts, they could just put a stacking conflict across different spell lines and resists.

    For example the Broiling Shadow line could conflict with the Danvid's Decay line. Each is an 14 tick DoT one is fire and one is disease. This would lead to a scenario where people continue ignoring specific spell lines, but it would allow for the devs to keep or slightly modify the current damage values, reduce debuff count per necromancer and make necromancers DPS not take such a large hit when facing a fire immune / fire penalty mechanic mob.
  19. Stephen51 Augur

    I can understand the logic of what has been done, if you look at it on its own. However looking at the bigger picture, you have items that combined in a non tradeskill container which then produces a tradeskill item. Taking the tradeskill tag away from these items will cause problems for the player in classifying items as tradeskill materials as well as the storage of the items in tradeskill only bags in their banks.

    How will the player know when they loot any of these items that they are not vendor fodder? Will they have any indicator on them to show they are used in a "combine"?
  20. Truthfire Lorekeeper

    I am absolutely thrilled to finally see the Necro DoT revamp! Though as many have mentioned, the current numbers (damage AND mana cost) should get tuned down unless a DPS boost was intended.

    By compressing the 3 most recent DoTs into one you're allowing Necros to have more effective DoTs on a target than they do now. That's simply because you have removed 2 cast times and gem refresh times to accomplish the same ultimate effect (3 DoTs worth of damage on a target).

    For those who aren't familiar with Necro gameplay:

    As Necros add DoTs to the mob, other DoTs continue to tick and their durations decay, so Necros begin to take breaks from adding new DoTs to the stack in order to refresh older DoTs. Eventually this reaches a state of equilibrium where the Necromancer is only refreshing old DoTs and no new DoTs can be added without losing an older, higher priority one.

    Based on the above, it should be obvious that there will always be a theoretical cap on how many DoTs a single Necromancer can have on a single target at a time. In practice most Necromancers will not be at this theoretical cap because there are higher priority actions to take than refreshing a lower-damage DoT.

    Back to the revamp:

    Necros have 12 DoT lines in ToV (thus many of these will not be available yet for TLP players)
    - Long Fire (... Shadow)
    - Medium Fire (Pyre of the ...)
    - Short Fire (Pyre of ...)
    - Long Disease (...'s Decay)
    - Heartflutter (Grip of ...)
    - Duration Lifetap (...'s Grasp)
    - Group Duration Lifetap (... Leech)
    - Curse (name varies, Oblivion in ToV)
    - Manaburn (Ignite ...)
    - Poison (...'s Pallid Haze)
    - Decaying Poison (... Venom)
    - Plant-Bane Corruption (name varies, Miasma in ToV)

    There are also the following, which already don't stack with themselves or are changing functionality:
    - Splurt/Wounds Line - doesn't stack with itself anyway.
    - Swift DoTs - timers prevented stacking (without use of Forceful Rejuv); now being changed to the exact same as their highest damage parent DoT but shorter and cheaper. Unknown what's happening to Swift Magic of Swift Lifetap at this time.

    The logic behind the revamp appears to be to take a current DoT, add the previous two versions of the DoT - both damage and mana cost - into it, and make the line unstackable. Which is great QoL, but with 12 different DoT lines, you'd essentially be allowing any Necromancer to maintain 37 current DoTs without even changing spell bars (12 lines * 3 spells compressed into 1 = 36 + Wounds/Splurt = 37).

    The top Necros in the game can't maintain 37 DoTs. Even with absolutely perfect play on a test dummy - hell, let's outright ignore the time it takes to swap spell sets too - the time just isn't there.

    Realistically, the damage (and mana) numbers need to be reduced to at least ~75% of their proposed revamped values to account for the fact that any Necro will be able to easily maintain their entire DoT arsenal on a mob. That is a good thing, and that QoL is what we asked for, but you need to keep in mind that we were only able to use a fraction of our spells in the first place!