Third server?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Iove, May 7, 2020.

  1. enclee Augur

    No, your analogy was bad and ignored larger points of establishing an in game economy and community.
  2. Dagud New Member

    Using a real example:
    I am a TLP hopper for one main reason. I have enjoyed being part of Norrath since inception, but my real world does not align well with regular raiding schedules. I play a lot of EQ, but I take frequent mini-breaks during my play time that are not conducive to grouping in dungeons.

    As such I mostly solo, and there is the pivotal problem. I’m more than happy to grind mobs all day long to earn plats to buy the items you all go out and find, but after the first few expansions there are very few worthwhile items that are tradable. Thus my toons hit a wall where they cease any meaningful progression, and I jump ship when the next TLP fires up.

    As a consequence, I spend most of my spare plat on Krono which means I haven’t paid a sub now for many years, and thus Daybreak earns nothing from me. If the TLP required a paid sub, I would gladly pay it.
  3. enclee Augur

    The original vision was all about creating a virtual world, where players could explore multiple avenues and fill niches. Some people become tradeskillers, some are adventures, some are traders, etc with each adding a different flavor to the community. Now, the current rules undermine the “vision” and community because it forces everyone on the same track.
    Machen likes this.
  4. Machen New Member


    I don't really care about the feelings of the designer at this point. They should not be remotely relevant to the discussions. If owning the T-shirt makes people happy and they want to pay for it without going to the theme park, why not let them? If the designers are going to be upset that people didn't experience their great content, maybe they should have made the content more fun in the first place and worthy of experiencing regardless of reward. But the reality is, the designers for the most part (excepting Prathun and Absor I guess) are long gone, EQ is structured 100% around the reward/loot, and the devs from 1999-2004 are probably just happy that anyone at all is still visiting what they made 15-20 years after the fact.

    As a real life analogy, there are tshirts that are only available for purchase at a little cabin on the Colorado river at the bottom of the grand canyon. To buy them, you have to either hike all the way down, or spend a week rafting down the canyon. Back in 2012 I bought one while doing a one day rim to rim run (back door brag!) The trip was one of my most memorable life experiences--I made the run in February, solo, and a lot of the water stops weren't turned on yet for the year especially coming back up, so I was pretty dehydrated by the end. An off duty park ranger followed me the last few hours, he said he wanted the company but I think he was just really making sure I didn't pass out and die. One of the more challenging days in my life.

    I wouldn't personally sell the tshirt on ebay. I definitely wouldn't buy one if I hadn't done the run. And I'm glad the national park service doesn't just sell the same tshirt on their online store--that would defeat the whole idea of the shirt. But if someone did what I did, or even floated down the river and bought the tshirt themselves, and then decided to sell it, I'm fine with that--it would probably go for a lot more than a run of the mill t-shirt, as they aren't easy to get. Whoever buys it can decide for themselves whether they are honest about how they acquired the shirt. And the thought of someone passing a regulation saying "No one is allowed to own this shirt unless you physically hike down there and earn it yourself" is discouraging, because I'd love to pass it down to a grandkid someday as a piece of family lore (along with the account of how I bought it.) And I'm fine with that grandkid wearing it, even if they didn't "earn" it themselves. Just as I'm generally fine with passing them my furniture, house, farm equipment, or stock accounts, even if they didn't earn those things themselves.

    Heck, maybe DPG could even add a tag to all the items: "First looted by Skuz in Tacvi on 6/12/2021." Other games have done this (Vanguard for instance, ~15 years ago so it can't be THAT difficult to implement.) This would increase the coolness factor for some items--server first stuff would have a lot more value and go for a lot more dkp. It might even create some additional interest to actually visit the zone--I sure hope my grandkids might be inspired to hike to the bottom of the grand canyon to see it for themselves even though they already have the tshirt. Maybe someone who has bought 11 pieces of Tacvi gear will be inspired to say, "I should really join a guild and go check that zone out for myself." Just like the guy who has bought 3 gnome masks on 3 different TLP's might eventually think, "I should really go see Sleeper's Tomb myself this time around."

    Bottom line, I don't see a compelling gameplay reason to go against the way human society has worked for as long as human society has existed in this case.
  5. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Is the raiding experience more valuable to the raider who goes & gets the item to begin with, well of course it is if they know they can can capitalise on the loot they earned & won when they have the ability to sell it once they finish with it , but the person buying it is getting a cheapened experience, they never have to go there & earn that loot themselves they've been given a great item on one hand & paid handsomely for it but they've also been robbed of needing to go experience the content it came from they've bypassed the theme park & just got the T-Shirt, never went on the rides.

    But hey, if you can't put yourself in the shoes of the designer it's okay, if you think my doing so means I have a childish mindset then I'm okay with that, I'm happy to be childish & want the content to be the thing players focus on experiencing rather than focusing on the loot. Nothing wrong with wanting to play & have fun like children do. Maybe you got too old & cynical to have fun like a child does, more the pity if you did.

    Game economies can be vibrant without trading raid loots though.
  6. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I know you don't, lucky for me I do I guess.
    Pawtato likes this.
  7. Dagud New Member

    True but many things change over time. The original vision included manastones, and didn’t include Krono. The only thing that matters now is are there enough people willing to pay real money to keep the lights on. A free trade server would allow us filthy casuals (I can easily put in 50+ hours a week most weeks) to spend our plats on upgrades over time and invest longer in a single server, and thus have a reason to pay a subscription. instead, we buy Krono and ride for free, waiting for the next reboot.
  8. Pawtato Augur

    Really cool anecdote about the T-shirt at the end of rafting trip, I'm checking that out on google now. Also, I really like the idea of adding item history, its such a neat fantasy RPG concept.
    Machen likes this.
  9. enclee Augur


    Holy cow, look at that run on sentence! Lol. I'm just telling you from first-hand experience moving from a traditional server to FV almost 7 years ago was the best decision I've made in EQ. Raiding to me now has more value than it ever did on Prexus. I'm not destroying/tributing old items.

    Break out of the Matrix, man.

    Edit: Also, to your second paragraph I deleted out. Developer feelings are irrelevant. They're not the end users of the content. I framed your mindset as childish, because it's the attitude that everyone must do the same thing and follow my rules. Free trade allows more player freedom, but your method is restrictive and how children think.
  10. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I'm happy for you that your decision worked out well for you.

    Options are good.

    I have no clue what you mean by this, but I avoid pills of any colour as much as I can.
  11. enclee Augur


    Have you ever tried FV?
  12. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Yes I have but since I am European & there was no European community on FV of note I didn't stick around.
  13. enclee Augur


    Well, that's unfortunate.
  14. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Where did I say I wanted there to be nowhere where Free-Trade was used?

    I wasn't trying to be dictatorial, if that's how you interpreted what I have been saying you are very much mistaken.

    I was simply giving my honest perspective on why I don't think its good from a gaming experience perspective & hoped to also perhaps expand some horizons on maybe why the designers don't want to have Free Trade outside of one or maybe 2 servers by sharing why I think they maybe don't, in order to do that I imagined things from their perspective, was that bad?
  15. Machen New Member


    How long did you try it?

    And really, no European community? It is the most populated server in all eq. There have been multiple euro guilds on most of the popular TLP's, if there is no euro guild on FV I'm really disappointed for you all. Sincerely. That sucks.
  16. enclee Augur



    There's not, we're mostly EST raid guilds. If they wanted to move over from AB to FV, we'd love to have them!
    Machen likes this.
  17. Machen New Member


    That makes me sad. I've been in Euro guilds on a lot of the TLP's, they are mostly great players. There should be one guild on FV/
  18. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    A few weeks here & there, circa 2015 I never found any Euro Guilds of any kind let alone a Euro Raiding guild there.

    I'm sure a few Europeans probably do play there on USA times.

    When was the last time anyone even heard of a Euro Raiding guild on FV?
  19. Machen New Member

    rrrrrrrrr
    Honestly curious about the anser to this question.

    IF there is none, I'm open to creating one with you!
  20. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    A guild of two players & little chance of any others joining doesn't fill me with excitement oddly enough.

    But I appreciate the sentiment.
    Machen likes this.