Expansion duration past TBM (Phinnigel)

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Nexxo, Apr 19, 2020.

  1. Nexxo New Member

    Hello all,

    I've had this post in my mind for quite a while now, and i am pretty sure it has always been mentioned in the past. Quite a few of us are still enjoying Phinnigel server a lot, but i have some concerns about upcomming expansions. TDS is fine, and doubling the amount of currency rewards was a great thing for the server health (and future servers reaching these expansions). I think we will also be fine with a 2 months TBM. But starting with EoK, and especially for EoK considering the mechanic changes that occurs and the amount of AA grind.
    1. Group progression is mandatory to gain immunity to green sarnaks aura. That means everyone will have to do progression it will take time, some peoples just log in for raids, it will have to be a guild effort to help everyone go through it.
    2. The way gearing mechanics changed is also a major concern. Guilds complained they had to backtrack to EoK raids to use RoS armor. That was with 9 months of EoK before RoS. How are we supposed to deal with it on Phinny with 2 months of EoK ? That's simply way way too short. The same applies to group gear.
    I did really like EoK back on live, it's one of my favourite expansion, if not my favourite one, please do not make us rush it and make a lot of peoples quit over frustration the week RoS release... Could you at least make EoK last a minimum of 3 months ?
    I'm curious to see what other players from phinny and other tlps think about it, along with developpers.
    RainbowCane likes this.
  2. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    My main concern is that if RoS continues to require EoK gear & full group progression it is going to be a "crunch point" that harms player retention & could have knock-on detrimental effects.

    Given that RoS requires EoK gear in order to even create RoS gear I would firstly request that EoK be given a 12 week window rather than 8, I would also suggest that once RoS unlocks EoK gets doubled raid drops, if only for the visible gear slots.

    An alternative to the above could be a "template" solution so that RoS gear no longer requires EoK gear to make. This would also make it much easier for a returning player who was not able to play during EoK & prevent having to go back to EoK for those returners to get them that EoK gear during RoS that many guilds on live ended up having to do - not a fan of this method myself but it is an option that might work better on fast unlock servers.

    Maybe those changes along with the raid currency changes that have already gone in this will make moving through EoK & RoS smoother & more in line with past progression but I think the EoK to RoS era does need to be carefully looked at regarding gear acqusition rates and I think some changes will be needed to avoid this being a major bottleneck & potentially causing player losses that could have been avoided.
    RainbowCane and blackninja like this.
  3. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Honestly I think all expansions after SoF should be 3 months.

    Underfoot, CoTF, TBM, EoK, TBL. Those expansions are currently slated to be 2 month only expansions.

    I get that some of them are lighter on the content side like CoTF and TBM, but I feel like it should just be consistently 3 months for all the year long expansions on live.
    Skuz likes this.
  4. Dilf Augur

    When I log into Phinigel, there's like 150 people in gen chat at most. I really doubt any thought or resources will be put into the logistics from here on out, if they assume all TLPs will fizzle out at this point in their release cycle. Other than the lame exp, Phinigel was a great server.
    Ulrin and Bullsnooze like this.
  5. Tweakfour17 Augur

    They just changed loot rules for mid-late game expansion raids in this month's patch

    "Raid events from Veil of Alaris and later will now grant more currency after they have been open for 3, 6, and 9 months on live servers. On Progression Servers these events will grant more currency as soon as the expansion unlocks, and add additional bonuses after each of the next two expansions unlock or at 3 month intervals, whichever is faster."

    So some consideration is still being given to the TLPs in those eras even if they only have a few hundred toons left.
  6. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Well, community on Phinigel has requested a lot of the changes that will benefit later TLPs, the two new ones this year included, whether any servers after Phinny still have 3 active guilds make it into TDS or later remains to be seen but I would not be surprised if a few do at least so I don't think the continued activity on requesting changes & providing good reasons for them is wasted at all.

    Trailblazing.
    Ulrin likes this.
  7. Aueman Journeyman

    Yes, because every player on a server joins general chat so that should be used to determine how many people are there o_O.

    Phinigel has 3 raid full raid forces ( some guilds with a bench ) that are clearing end game content. I'm not 100% positive but I'd be willing to bet that this is more than some live servers have. Also there are countless TLP's that will someday be in the same position we are so It doesn't make sense that resources would not be put to use here. Especially if you look at all of the previous changes that have occurred. I'll give you one guess as to who was pushing for these changes. (Phinigel players).

    I do agree that a lot of the population leaves before they get to these era's, but there are those of us that want to ride the wave to live.
    Skuz likes this.
  8. Zinth Augur


    Lol really? We muster full raids in Phinny, many don't even join "gen chat" because well... it's "gen chat" 54man raids with sitouts at times... and we are just one guild... Euro at that... plenty of like on Phinny

    Phinny's biggest mistake was the cruddy exp which really discouraged making alts + lower playtime folks

    minor personal gripes for me would be "no freetrade" and "truebox rules" everyone boxes anyways and truebox should simply go away on ALL servers when they reach SoD (merc era)

    all the people whining about "boxers" really talk about botters, and they are not the same but the devs "appeased" the whiners by giving them "truebox" mode... and it changed nothing other than require more pc's to play as usual
    Ulrin and Skuz like this.
  9. Beep Elder

    Fixed that for ya
  10. Zinth Augur


    don't use VM's and don't plan to either, but if you believe all use that then peace to you
  11. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Except RoS also gives the diamond tradeskill gear for every single slot. You get like 6? diamonds for every raid kill. It all went to alts as it was just slightly worse than the regular gear, like, 2-3%? But you get so much of it gear isn't an issue.

    Also, you can beat every single raid in RoS without any gear from RoS.
  12. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    That follows the norm really, issue will be when you try raiding with returning players in TBL wearing worse than RoS/EoK gear.
    Zinth likes this.
  13. Accipiter Old Timer


    My 5 certainly don't. It's the first thing I turned off.
  14. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    This pretty much got buried under the avalanche of TLP posts.

    What do other Phinigel/Selos/Mangler & maybe potential Aradune/Rizlona players think about EoK being chnaged from the current 8 weeks to a 12 weeks expansion on TLP?

    I still think EoK for 8 weeks may be way too short.
  15. DeseanJackson Augur

    As a Selo player, I’d be up for a solution that speeds the process up for TLPs as opposed to extending time. We get one month no matter the expansion.

    I know very little about content outside where Selo is now and previous.
  16. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    EoK is also the biggest AA chunk by a factor of 5-6x the preceding expansion.

    It definitely needs to be a 3 month expansion minimum. Even 4 months would be good at this point.

    Also Selos EXP rate once we get into these 10k AA expansions would be extremely helpful
  17. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    I think Selo will find EoK especially problematic without changes, doubling the loot from it may be one solution, which i had suggested previously if an 8 week duration on Phinny isn't increased to 12, that was implemented for Underfoot & ended up working out well, enough loot but not too much.
  18. Lateryn Augur

    Honestly Phinny has done a lot for future servers when it comes to later expansions. They are basically the test group and the changes from them give every server that reaches that point a realistic means to keep up the pace.

    From what it sounds like you need EoK armor to make RoS armor? That seems really dumb. DPG does need to look into future expansions on how gearing/flagging works on truncated time tables. Selos is even worse off, because they have 4-5 weeks to be ready for the next one. And while 1/2 lockouts help , it doesn't match the 1/3 the time they have to do it compared to other servers(not to mention live). Doing things like double loot, double flags, double currency, etc will keep servers relevant into later expansions.
  19. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    That's the hope, even though it's mostly out of self-interest there is a knock on effect that will benefit those servers that follow behind, it won't be until Selos gets ToV that any of the current TLP servers overtakes Phinigel.

    Currently yes you do need EoK Raid Armor in order to create RoS Raid Armor and RoS gears will be needed to tackle TBL even if you can tackle RoS in EoK -ish gear.

    So far the devs, Ngreth in particular, have been addressing issues "just in time" and in fairness so far have been putting decent solutions in place, Ngreth is particularly fond of hard numbers more than less tangible things like opinions so it can be trickier to put the justifications forth.

    The concern with EoK boils down to time, time to get the massive amount of AA in EoK & time to farm sufficient amounts of EoK gears that moving through RoS & gearing in RoS for TBL is not going to mean getting bottle-necked by a need to go back to EoK constantly in order to have meaningful progress in TBL as a result of this armor upgrading system in these two expansions (EoK / RoS).

    Double loots (as done for Underfoot) could be a working solution for the gear issues caused by this upgrade-path choice the devs made - but it doesn't address concerns over sufficient time to farm EoK AA, on Phinny double loots & a longer expansion run (12 weeks vs 8) is what I am suggesting along with Nexxo, on Selo they would need both a double loot & possibly a further increase to AAXP to come out of EoK in the right shape to tackle RoS &TBL.

    An alternative I suggested earlier is deviating from the upgrade-system for EoK/RoS by allowing RoS raid gear to use a template system as seen in prior expansions to sidestep that requirement for EoK gear & avoiding that as a bottleneck.

    Would be nice to get more forward-looking feedback on this post from Guilds that are on the other TLPs though even if the EoK expansion is quite a way away for them, especially if they have experience of playing through it on live as Nexxo has.