In-game maps would make it much easier for people to return to EQ.

Yet all evidence says that 20 years is typical. My argument is that the next 20 years that are going to be difficult

I'm not saying that EQ is a mud. I'm saying that it is like a mud with regard to the player base and expected longevity of the game. People don't just leave for the next cool thing like they do in some genres. They build a community here and will want to stay for the long term. It's why there's so little interest in some EQ3 idea because nobody wants to start over with a new game. They just want to make the one they like better.

It's what SoE failed to recognize.

This is not World of Warcraft. Please stop trying to make it World of Warcraft. We get enough easy buttons as it is. Making maps is a skill and a talent. What other game can you think of where members of the player base get to make such a big impact on huge portions of the community? This is a *good* thing.

Anyone that spends time doing collections and is constantly making the entire UI invisible so you can find all shinies certainly has to learn it versus following some green arrow on another screen.

How big is the part of the playerbase you are supposedly speaking for who enjoys making their own maps for every zone.

One can only assume that it is a minuscule part of the playerbase considering how labour-intensive and unintuitive the map making process is. It is so unintuitive that I assume that the people who do provide those maps to the community, do not just rely on the built-in map editor.

If we assume the large majority of the playerbase is using premade maps, it stands to reason these maps should be provided in the most straightforward and and safe way possible. It is a responsibility of Daybreak, not 1 or 2 people running unsecure sites that are exposing the larger playerbase to unneeded security risks, to provide the basic functionality to be able to enjoy this game.

Well ... hmmm ... World of Warcraft?

Not arguing over qualities and flaws of each game, it's not the point (and frankly, I don't care, I don't play WoW anymore for a long time now) but the impact of WoW lua addons, which are also player made, is way bigger than maps on EQ.
It has even an impact on the game development itself

Yep, you're prolly right, I bet they're using some 3rd party tool to extract the landscape from the *_chr.s3d files and convert the points, and not drawing them with the clunky ingame map editor.

Except WoW has a massive community to developing add-ons. Also, I would say WoW is more difficult than EQ. They have a wider range of content difficulty, but I don't think the average player in EQ could handle all the mechanics in the WoW dungeons.

You'd be wrong.

Strawberry- i was talking about guys like Good and Brewall. The vast majority of players i've met use these guys' maps or one of a few others. Meaning the guys or gals who do take the time to make maps get to share that effort with just about everyone, and it makes our lives and our community a little better, don't you think?

Honestly I don't think the absence of maps drives new players away. I don't think they ever get that far in the game to realize there is such a thing. They're so overwhelmed by a 14 year old Tutorial that maps or lack thereof never get on their radar.

They should save me the 15 minutes of getting new maps every expansion by just including Goodurdens by default.

One can both appreciate the effort people put into those maps, while at the same time recognize that having to download zip files from unsafe sites is not a solution, but simply a means to an end.

Being able to easily navigate EQ with a map is essential to its gameplay. EQ with its hundreds of zones is impossible to navigate for most players without maps.

The fact EQ does not include these within the game, is incomprehensible to me.

There are in-game maps provided for new players for the starting zones.

However, maps for the large majority of zones are not available in-game. I do think this affects returning players, it's a hurdle you make people jump through before they can enjoy the game. It's a hurdle that can not be overcome within the game itself, but requires the help of 3rd party sites.

Downloading a zip archive (Well defined archive format) full of text files (not executable, text) I cannot see how it is unsafe even from the most unsafe site on the internet.

The maps I use are served by google who virus scan that download before I can even download a zip archive full of text files.

I really like our map makers and think the devs should figure out how to include them by default.

But suggesting unsafe sites is pretty far out there.

Agreed.