Necromancer and their DoTs

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Revan, Apr 13, 2020.

  1. Revan New Member

    I'm starting on mangler until the new servers are released, and was planning on being a necromancer on both servers. I stumbled upon some threads with people saying that in order to do decent damage as a necro, you have to stack a large number of dots on the target. It sounds like a nightmare when trying to fit all the other spells you'll need on your car in addition to multiple of the same dot line. Is this as big a deal as it sounds or am I missing something?
  2. Zansobar Augur

    Until the dot revamp hits Necros - supposedly by the end of the year things probably won't begin to look up for Necromancers.
  3. Kalipto Augur

    They said the SK revamp was done and it's already on test. It'll roll out with the next patch according to the AMA dev chat. Necros will start seeing changes in the patch after that.

    Now, with that said, SK's dots didn't get touched pre-level 71. If they do the same for necros it means a new TLP necro won't see any improvement until you're 11 expansions deep. That's around 2 years after the TLP comes online. (1 year away for Mangler still).

    So I wouldn't hold out hope that necro will still be weak compared to all melee dps on a TLP. I do hope they revamp pre-71 spells for necros. But if they didn't do it for SK's they might not for nec either. It'd be nice to hear from a dev on this.
    Rulu likes this.
  4. Zansobar Augur

    I was just looking on Zam and the spells above 71 for Shadowknight are not shared (almost all) by Necros, and it appears even down to about level 65 are not. So maybe the pre level 71 SK spells, which are shared with Necros will be updated once DPG updates the Necromancer DOTs. In other words, there is hope that Necros will get a full revamp and not just after expansions where most players don't play on TLPs anymore. Necros really need that dot revamp for the TLPs.
    Skuz and Bobbybick like this.
  5. Bobbybick Only Banned Twice

    I think it's more that nearly every SK DoT prior to level 70 is just a necro DoT with a higher level req for casting, so buffing their prior 70 spells would effectively also be a necro revamp (at least for early era TLP necros).

    I could also believe that they don't want to revamp early era DoTs anymore just because of how much more tweaking/balancing it requires.
    Raptorjesus5 and Skuz like this.
  6. Kalipto Augur


    Level 71+ is actually the level they stopped giving SK's the necro dot lines. That's when they introduced ranked spells and SK/Necro don't share spells from that point forward. So the SK revamp of 71+ spells won't impact necros at all. Sadly.

    Edit:
    I'm hopeful they'll update necro dots the way they did druids and retool them from level 1 forward. Maybe they will since necro depends on dot dmg way more than sk's.
    Skuz likes this.
  7. Kobra Augur

    This is unpopular opinion, but be careful what you wish for.

    What happens when they consolidate necro dots and you run up against mob that has resists and you can only cast one type of magic on it. Say for example, only poison dots will land.

    Take example of raid boss that you can only land poison on. You cast 1 poison dot and then what do you with the rest of your global cool downs? Other classes have other worthwhile spells they can use their global cooldowns on. Druids can debuff, they can heal, they have worthwhile nukes. Necro don't have that luxury. So now in worst case scenario, you get to cast 1 dot, which means you only have to account for one timer and I am falling asleep thinking of how boring it will be.

    If they make a change it needs to take into consideration how necro is supposed to be played. They should just tune down the melee. The game does not need to be even more trivialized. If its too hard or too tedious to juggle spell sets then play another class.
  8. Machen New Member


    Curious, do you play a necro on live?
  9. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    Every dot SKs get before PoP is a necro dot. Ever dot after PoP besides Ignite Blood(61) is a SK only dot. Wouldn't shock me if the Dev that did the revamp doesn't know this though.
  10. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    It's a bit ironic that you choose poison dots because Necros and Shaman share the same poison dot spells below 60 and the sub 60 necro poison dots are already revamped from the Shaman revamp.
    Rulu likes this.
  11. Kobra Augur


    Choose any spell line, it would be the same. You cast the line of dot that will land and then what do you do with the rest of your time? I am only talking about the cases where boss is resistant. On a resistant mob I can land multiple dots of the type that will land. If they consolidate you get to cast 1 dot and then afk until it wears off or play gimpy wizard. If that is the dev intention so be it, I think it ruins the class before you get enough diverse dot lines.

    Necros on live server are fine with the recent changes. I have no complaints about spell swapping to maximize dps. I have no issues with stacking dots either. That is the necro class, it has worked that that way for a long time.

    If you don't want to stack dots, then why play a necro? If you don't want to manage spell sets to maximize your damage you don't have to. Nobody forces anyone to play that way. There are players like myself who enjoy that challenge and are good at it.

    The issue on live is the debuff slots, not the stacking of dots.
  12. Kobra Augur


    Yes, I play a necro on live and I play a necro on TLP occasionally. Not sure how this is relevant to anything I posted.

    I plan to play a necro on Rizlona unless this dot consolidation makes the class play like then I will probably give up on TLP and stick to live.

    There is some content I missed the first time around and that is why I like to play on TLPs.
  13. Machen New Member


    I ask because most people who comment on this don't have any clue what the dot revamps are really aimed at (edited to add, on this forum that is--plenty of legitimate discussion in teh vet's lounge.) I'll assume you do have a clue since you play a necro on live.

    These aren't aimed at the TLP's. They don't care about making necros more boring to play on the TLP's, or screwing up TLP class balance. The previous dot revamps give plenty of evidence of that. If your concern is that your live necro is only going to have one dot to cast on raids, down from the usual ~30+ a skilled necro would rotate, that's probably a valid concern and probably a good part of why they haven't done the dot revamp yet.

    I suspect that for most TLP necros, more boring would be just fine anyway. Most of the ones I've raided with would be great with the thought of casting one dot then tabbing to netflix til it wears off.
  14. a_librarian Augur

    are you reading your own posts though?
  15. darkin New Member

    Agreed with Machen. As a Necro main on Agnarr, I find it funny how lazy most necros are on raids. If you're going all out, you've got:

    - funeral pyre
    - pyro (from ele legs)
    - blood of Thule
    - envenomed bolt
    - dark plague
    - plague
    - horror
    - saryrns kiss
    - splurt (VT clicky)
    - demo lich cap

    That's 10 dots you can be stacking. If you're on top of things you're basically chain casting the entire boss fight, and in between some casts you can toss a few lifetaps. A necro can absolutely make parses on potime fights if you use triggers and keep uptime on your dots.

    Most necros however cast like 2-3 dots and then do nothing. Necros are actually quite a fun class to play, they're very versatile and bring a lot of utility. You can go all out on DPS, you have debuffs (str, atk, ac, resists) that you can use, or you can assist clerics/casters with twitching.

    I kinda like that necros have to use many different dots to maximize their DPS. The only real thing I'd suggest changing is upping some of the dmg of the dots, I find it silly that 10 necro dots = 3 shaman dots in terms of damage output.

    I think more of the necro dots should have a similar style to splurt, I think that fits thematically... I like the idea that dots do more dmg as time goes on. Or maybe there can be some thing where subsequent casts of the same dot on a mob does increased damage... Encourages proactive necro play vs just upping the base dmg.

    Anyhow, necros are cool.
    Rulu likes this.
  16. Discord Ocean of Tears Conservationist

    lol. This issue arises from live necromancers where this pales in comparison. TLPs receiving the revamp are just a side effect.
    Tucoh and Umul like this.
  17. Primerone New Member

    To actually answer your question, instead of what other people are doing. Basically on raids it will depend on what resistance etc, you will need to learn which dots to use on which bosses. Some bosses you can just use 3-4 dots, others you will have to stacks dots then load another set of dots to your spell gems and put them on. It sounds like a pita, but it's still doable, as long as you either have audio alerts when stuff drops off, or you have all your dots in one window, so you see when they fall off. Necros get some shaman dots too (OP ones that were apart of shaman dot revamp) which are good. It all depends on your mana too, even with lich on you will run into mana issues in the early expansions at least keeping all your dots up (the shaman ones necros get cost alot).

    For soloing or group work you won't need to stack loads of dots, normally 2-3 is enough, depending on how fast mobs are dying. You'll be using the OP shaman dots mostly here in early expansions.
  18. Accipiter Old Timer


    LOL, you should just quit posting. The devs can't look at the database and determine the classes that a spell is intended for? Way too complicated in your mind, I guess.
  19. Accipiter Old Timer


    Still, the statement he quoted was dumb af.
    code-zero likes this.
  20. Umul Augur

    Consolidating Necro dots pre PoP would make Necro exceedingly boring. The charm to classic-PoP necro is if you are good at juggling dot timers (gina!) you can crush most fights. Extrapolating that play style out, its easy to see why debuff caps and rotating dozens (not exaggerating) of spells is a little extra to say the least.

    I'm not sure exactly which expansion the ratio of battle memming/dot stacking to DPS becomes inefficient... I think they have it right just focusing on 71 or 86 or whatever point they choose and working up.

    TLP necros crush, we don't need Funeral pyre to do 700tick for 800 mana in return for not needing to cast funeral pyre/pyro/Ignite Blood to meet similar tick damage. If the result of only consolidating dots past OOW or something means necros are not amazing for a few expansions, oh well? They make new TLPs all the time, reroll so you can feel good about your gamprase, idk.

    I discourage change for change's sake, unless the change has a clear purpose.

    I would ask the devs since they thought my last post was "trolly" … what is the purpose of the dot revamp?

    what is your objective? fewer spells for more damage? fewer spells for same damage but more mana?