Autogrant Focus AA (Early ranks/Past expansions)

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Benito, Apr 2, 2020.

  1. Tarvas Redwall of Coirnav, now Drinal

    I don't really have a desire to grind 20k AAs on alts. That just me though. The good news is that TOV is playable without having max AAs or even TBL gear for the most part.
    Yinla likes this.
  2. Balthozzar Elder

    I took another look at the wizard focus AAs. It is even more of a problem than I thought.

    I have a few of them at rank 9, which allowed them to work with my spells from RoS or TBL at a 16% boost. Guess what comes next. I have to buy 2 more ranks at 100AA each (50AA for the beams one, and for some reason, the magic Ethereal is only 50 while the fire and cold ones are 100) in order to get it to 20%. But that does not add the ToV spells to the list! For that, I'll need to buy the next rank after that. Why does this make sense? It just seems really dumb to make someone wait to acquire and spend hundreds more AA to make a previously purchased AA work with a new spell you get as you level.
    enclee likes this.
  3. Wulfhere Augur

    The Focus AA are a mess. SPA 385 is being abused. What's being done is unsustainable. Some AA are using over 30 slots to describe themselves now and they are getting longer every expansion. This approach to giving players a bad experience doesn't even scale well for the devs. Take a look at this AA with 39! slots and counting:

    https://www.raidloot.com/AA.aspx?name=power&effect=385&tab=Focus&exp=All Max Rank&class=ShadowKnight

    The fact that spell groups don't encompass the entire line of spells, just the current spells 1+ ranks, is the heart of the issue. It's also an issue (feature?) that impacts Type 3 focus augments.

    We have a situation were the Devs are creating an AA system that discourages customers (players) from using the new spells for the current expansion that they purchased. Thanks in part to player feedback, Spell and matching Synergy AA levels were patched after TOV beta so we know the Devs are aware. Keep it up folks.
  4. Balthozzar Elder

    It doesn't quite discourage obtaining and using the new spells. At least, not in the case of Wizard nukes. The ToV single target nukes have ~35% more base damage than the RoS versions did, so it is still going to be an upgrade to use the ToV spell despite the focus AA not working, as they don't add that much to the damage.

    The problem, as I see it, is that obtaining the more powerful versions of spells as you level is the same to advancing your character as acquiring new gear from the higher level content. But getting new gear in from higher level content doesn't make any previously purchased AA obsolete. A tank's Combat Stability AA doesn't stop boosting his AC when he equips new, higher level armor, nor will Weapon Affinity stop increasing proc rate, or Ingenuity stop increasing crit chance of procs when equipping higher level weapons, etc, until a new rank is purchased.

    It appears to come down to the way that the focus AA are coded. Since there is nothing in the spell database to tie different spells of the same spell line together, the AA needs to list every spell affected by it individually. Thus, it could be simply a matter of only taking the time to add the new spells to the new ranks, since they had to create the new ranks already anyway. If the devs are aware, and it is just a matter of putting the time in, then it is still a frustrating issue, given that it really should have been obvious that it needed addressing back with RoS.
  5. Skvoid Elder

    Yes it's crazy, leveled up my alt necro who I have not played since VoA and the amount of focus AAs he needs to get is insane, at least some of the earlier ranks work on his older dots, but that little perk only benefits Necros, everyone else has to buy 1000s of AAs to have the focus line working on the latest nuke. It's not a problem on your main or alts you have kept current since they released them but anyone trying to catch up faces a significant challenge.
    As others have pointed out it extremely discouraging to spend 1000 AA for zero effect, then the last rank of 100AA you receive a massive increase on your current rank spell.
    Nadisia and Wulfhere like this.
  6. Wulfhere Augur

    Agreed, spells are caster gear.
    That's one of my points. The Spell Group ID can tie the entire spell line together. Dzarn and Aristo could future proof the entire Focus Tab AA design, backwards and forwards, by doing this. There is at least one example of the Devs doing "focus right".

    Done rightly: Paladin Blessing of Light AA. All the Strike effects in the line have the same Spell Group ID (19). The AA ranks simply improve the focus effects. Super smart and easy:

    https://www.raidloot.com/AA.aspx?name=blessing of light&effect=385&class=Paladin
    https://www.raidloot.com/Spells.aspx?name=g19&class=Paladin

    So the Devs do know better. Maybe they forgot? One reason they might have not done other foci this way is because they designed this focus ladder on purpose, as some kind of "level treadmill". Sorry, I vote that it's too broken. Please fix it and save all the players much grief (and yourselves unsustainable work).
    Yinla, jiri_ and enclee like this.
  7. enclee Augur

    Wulfhere, great points about the spell group ID and existing AAs that affect a line versus a single spell. If I had to guess, I’d say it’s the work of two different people. They tried something different, but as you pointed out it’s actually making their work more difficult.
    Wulfhere likes this.
  8. smash Augur

    You say this as it is rather bad, it is not. The melee need to get the new weapons to get upgrades, casters need aa, which is a lot easier to get than the weapons. This is old arguments which were also true before focus tab came into play.

    The only slight error as I see it, was when EoK came out and there were no level increase, the amount of AA that was given out of rather big compared to prior expansions without level increases.

    Maybe autogrant should follow the f2p, so instead of being 4 expansions behind, it should only be 2. That would serve 4 purposes, would likely encourage people to buy new expansions + pay to play, and stop people from paying for aa from other people(at least all the aa that is autogranted). And attract new people.
    And it really would get people past the hill that is EoK.
  9. Wulfhere Augur

    I think you're missing the key point. To use your analogy, how would you feel if the old weapon you placed in your bag could no longer be used? If you tried to equip it, via bandolier even, the gear slot would be yellowed. The special proc on that old weapon is lost to you. That is what is happening with many of these focus AA ladders, especially the synergy ones. All that play time investment is lost. The player is frustrated.

    Also this.
    I view this AA expense ladder as akin to a level 60 looting a weapon/armor whose required level is say 100. Sure they have the item but it's useless to them for a long time. Pre-looting such an item is fun game play, while making the down payment on the focus AA is not.
    jiri_ and Yinla like this.
  10. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Casters also need to get weapons to improve themselves as well.

    A melee can go the the highest level and get their weapon without having to loot any previous weapons, a caster doing that with the focus AAs is impossible, you have to get ALL of the lower ones to get the higher ones to work and this is done for EVERY spell line. We are talking thousands of AAs.

    Melee can get away with looting one or 2 weapons, casters have 13 spell slots and most of the spells in those slots have focus AAs. Buffing classes have a lot more AAs to work on, I don't even want to think about hybrids.
  11. smash Augur

    But then if you have played properly you would by now be max aa already, unless you been a player that do not play a lot, in which case, you do have a problem.
    And you should have got the aa when that expansion was the present one.


    And weapons for casters, that is a minute % what they gain from that, the focus items are where you gain most of the powers.

    For melee, the main IS from weapons, just like most of yours from spells/focus, both need those thing respectively.
  12. Vumad Cape Wearer


    Arguing weapons while ignoring armor foci just shows a lack of knowledge, bias or both. Okay, your acknowledged the foci but somehow left the fact that we need 4-5 slots of armor while you need 2 slots of weapons in the equation. Upgrades are upgrades. Everyone needs loot.

    Casters have extended range, increased damage, increase duration and reduced mana cost. Our armor also has Spell damage and heal amount just like your attack rating. Mage/nec/bst pet earrings and ranger archey earring focus level is a big part of our DPS just like your weapon delays and damage amounts. We have the same upgrade needs as level caps increase as melee.

    Our BPs gives us up 5, 7 and 9% on our biggest nukes and they don't roll over from previous expansions. My TBL BP doesn't include my ToV nuke so I have to take a hit to my stats or my DPS. If we don't upgrade our armor, and lose a focus, we either lose a huge amount of DPS or efficiency. <---- This is fine but don't act like our gear doesn't matter.

    Your argument is ridiculous. To put it into perspective would be for your ToV weapon to take a 30% stat penalty until you have spent 100AA to upgrade it from TBL to ToV. And since we use about 5 critical spells, it's more like 500AA to use that ToV item. And if you are a returning player that needs the levels to get the groups, it's about 2500+ AA to get that ToV weapon to work.

    You would have a vastly different attitude if you saw this in your AA window...
    Focus: Slash - Increases the damage of your slashing weapons by 2%. Only works on weapons that drop in the EoK expansion
    400AA later
    Focus: Slash - Adds this bonus to ToV weapons. Costs 100AA

    Oh yeah, and there is also Focus 1Hslash, 2Hslash, 1Hblunt, 2Hblunt, You get the idea.

    But since you are not held back by those penalties, you can't understand what the conflict is.

    And to have such a negative attitude towards returning players is just as ridiculous. No one is asking for anything for free. But spending 400ishAA per line for no change until you buy the last rank for a sudden 23% boost in base damage makes the game wildly out of balance.
    Skvoid, Yinla, Wulfhere and 1 other person like this.
  13. smash Augur

    i know a lot of the arguments, I have after all a main class that use 50% melee and 50% spells.

    I also have started caster classes up and got maxxed, without my main being into play there.
    It is always a job to get back to max, Cannot expect to be fully functional without a lot of work.

    Focus, lately the focus is working over multiple expansions,so they dont stop working, but work 100% for +5 levels.
  14. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    Then play a melee and stop whining about it.

    Melee have to do the same darn thing for all their focus lines to work on their abilities, so you are just making things up.

    The spell focus aa work on the spells and levels they were created for. There isn't anything broken about it.
  15. Jumbur Improved Familiar

    While I agree focus-AA are not broken for casters, I do think the concept is flawed.
    I don't think any caster argues that they are too expensive or that they want "free power". But players that are returning after a few years break, will likely try to level up to max first and then work on AA. the focus-AA concept doesn't take that into consideration.

    Most other AA's gives a small permanent boost to player power immediately after purchase, that is what we are used to. That immediate power-boost is missing from Focus-AAs for returnees who goes for levels before AA'ing.

    If they spread out the power-gain along the entire spell line instead of what we have now, this issue could be avoided. The final AA-count would be the same, the max-aa'ed player-power would be the same, and we would get an immediate power-boost for each purchase, not unlike what we would have gained if we AA-ed while leveling.
    Balthozzar, Wulfhere and enclee like this.
  16. Balthozzar Elder

    My original reply would have gotten a lot of TL;DR replies, so here's my 1 short paragraph take:

    People on Live servers that have been around looking to work on a new character or a returning player looking to get to max level to play with friends already there is not going to pause leveling to raise focus tab AAs that will only work on lvl 101-105 spells. They are going to keep leveling to be able to use gear that will help them survive the most current content their friends are playing in. Having to then go back and spend 100's of AA points on focus tab AA ranks that won't do anything until they get near the end is just plain silly.