Thinking of rolling an Enc, what should I know first?

Discussion in 'Casters' started by bortage, Jan 1, 2020.

  1. Szilent Augur

    Dopple was a 1M damage button during RoS, don't know what it is now. The target+tank have to be stable, though, because By Design it'll rip agro so can't be used in a situation where the boss will have to be moved. Phantasmal Opponent is both less disruptive and less productive. Neither, though, should be an issue for a smart caster to profit by deploying.

    Single target MR stacks with MR Aura and is lowkey nuts total damage per cast when applied to worthy casters & hybrids. It's a pain in the butt to be constantly toggling away from the boss between Mindrifts, of course, but that'd be a theoretical way in which an enchanter "all about adps" would torpedo their own parse standing to gain contribution to their group / the raid.
  2. RPoo Augur

    Hope this helps. Reckless assault last two weeks.
    [IMG]
  3. Verily Tjark Augur

    Well I have some work to do obv... lol
  4. Szilent Augur

    The couple Chromatic Stabs in the long parse is cute
  5. RPoo Augur

    ty was after rez trying to get some free spells going till i got more sustainable mana
  6. Dovhesi Elder

    I'm skeptical that any gain from throwing out single-target MR buffs during an event would be significant enough to justify the loss of GoCH and other procs in the process. In other words, a "smart" enchanter would choose the option that doesn't torpedo their own parse.
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  7. Renotaki Elder

    Single Tar mana reps only really make sense if it's before an event starts or during event downtime with nothing to attack, debuff w/e like the parts of Grillikor where no one is doing anything or between mob phases in GMM 3 raid
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  8. Szilent Augur

    So according to real fight breakdowns for the two wizards reporting in https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/wizard-tov-raids.262619/ , 20 Mana Replication II procs add up to over a million damage. Close to 1.2M. (the reporting wizards had way more procs overall since theirs happened to come from auras over a long battle, not short duration buffs, but whatevs. I just did a simple multiplication of the avg hit since it's the same effect; the buff just guarantees 20. That's dismissing the Re- and Re-Re- and Re-Re-Re- and Re-Re-Re-Re-Replication chances since those get awfully rare so subject to streakiness.

    I'm not out here calling y'all liars if you assert that Mindslash with its 8% to Haze is worth more than a million damage on a per-cast basis, but it seems likely to me that the primary justification for not using single Mana Reps - even on yourselves? - is how nice it is to just spam a multibind. I'm not just talking crap, frankly that's how I cleric, too. A stream of Rems & Inters till someone loots something, and it's not like anyone's disappointed with the performance, per se.
  9. Sancus Augur

    It's pretty hard to prove this conclusively, but here's my ghetto math (note: I started writing this post before doing any of this ghetto math, no clue where it's going):

    1. I took my normal spell weave in kizant's webapp over 300s with settings approximating what I'd see in raids. I added in FE, Epic, Black Wolf, and Season's Wrath. The first three all had their normal durations, so there was a mix of different crit chance/damages. I extended Season's Wrath for the whole duration.

    2. It looks like turning on Gift of Chromatic Haze in kizant's webapp procs 1 Gift of Chromatic Haze at the start of the fight, and then the next one procs after whatever cooldown you specify. Therefore in 300s with the default 20s cooldown, that's 15 procs. Turning this on brought my damage from 156,054,989 to 165,225,305. That's an average of 611,354 damage added per Gift proc.

    3. At an 8% proc rate, that's 48,908 damage on average per Mindslash cast. That gets added to each person in the group though, other than the bard (I think? I'll exclude them either way). My suspicion is Wizards and Druids probably get more out of Chromatic Haze procs than I do. That said, using that number yields an average of 244,542 damage per Mindslash cast.

    4. Looking at Renaii's Mindslash casts on that parse she linked (from Sunday), they averaged 604,571 damage per cast. As an aside, I'm not that up to date on Enchanter-ing so I don't know the use-case for Mindslash, but Pulmonary Grip's nuke averaged 1,140,296 damage per cast. Is Mindslash just used for fulminating Covenants and because of it's lower mana cost? And I think it also is valid for Calculated Insanity? Anyways I'll continue with Mindslash, as I was looking through I was just curious if this was the right spell to look at.

    5. I then took Renaii's actual damage from procs into Excel. I multiplied the expected proc rate for Mindslash by the Average damage of that proc. I chose an 80% proc rate for MR and the like because they can fall off. I multiplied all of those except Dragonmagic by 1.21 for twinproc. I also multiplied by 1.07 at the end b/c Renaii had 43 casts and 46 hits (In theory Twincast rate should be 1.16%, but I left it as is). I also excluded Re-Re procs:

    [IMG]

    That very ghetto math gets us to 299,115 + 244,542 + 604,571 = 1,148,228 expected average damage contribution per cast. I could see an argument for changing some of my assumptions, but in general I think I was pretty reasonable. I'm definitely not saying there aren't specific situations in which a single target MR cast might be optimal, but this matches with my general intuition that it's pretty close and likely not worth the hassle to cast mid event.

    Edit: I did want to elaborate on the specific situations thing - the main one that stands out to me is during Wizard Fury of the Gods. That would take more analysis to focus in on (I imagine Pulmonary Grip is used more during that same period?), but it's definitely a thing that this doesn't necessarily capture.
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  10. RPoo Augur

    Mostly right, factors I take into account for mindslash use are if another chanter casted covenant, if i have calculated insantiy going, and if my stormvolt vortex trigger was just triggered if i have a chance to land a nuke not waiting for refresh before it fades from others nukes.
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  11. Lannin Elder

    Edit: Gotcharms is retired :(

    Wow , that's really sad to hear , he was a great guy.
  12. Renotaki Elder

    Maybe better for wiz during Fury, but also time spent toggling between friendly PCs to do single tar Mana reps is lost rounds to swing your staff on a mob to fish for procs too~ along with the math up above to figure in the Mindslash damage. Plus, ultimately, I think most chanters would prefer to be parsing rather than buffing mage/wiz/ rangers with single tar Mana reps from a "fun" standpoint heh
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  13. Dovhesi Elder


    Exactly, like Renaii stated, Mindslash fulminates alliance and gains full benefit from calculated insanity (pulmonary grip does not). Another factor to consider in whether to use Mindslash vs Pulmonary Grip is whether or not you are in a sustained situation / long event where mana might be a concern, or if you have a low mana pool (Pulmonary Grip is very mana intensive).

    Pulmonary Grip has a higher base dmg per cast and a virtually non-existent cool-down period so it can get repeatedly cast between Mindrift casts, so during burns or if an event is short enough, it makes sense to cast Mindrift -> Pulmonary Grip -> Pulmonary Grip apart from when you have CI going. During "sustained" situations where burn mods aren't running and mana preservation is key, it makes sense to cast Mindrift -> Mindslash -> Pulmonary Grip.

    For example, in the Rustbottom raid (GMM 1), I would have significantly higher casts of Pulmonary Grip than Mindslash because it is such a quick burst event. In Restless Assault (ToV tier 1), I would have roughly the same casts of each because it is such a long event and mana conservation is going to be a big factor.
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  14. RPoo Augur

    I would even go as far to say that casting mindrift is only a courtesy adps for the group when i'd rather be gripping =P
  15. gotwar Gotcharms

    I still troll around a bit, just not raiding.

    Also this whole mana rererere-recip convo was one Kizant trolled me into having a couple years back. I basically came out to the same conclusion Sancus did after a bunch of posts ("it's sort of maybe worth casting but not really") and then Kiz hit me with "just kidding dude its not worth it lol"

    I can't find the post but I'm still salty about it. Come to think of it, Szilent was in on that one too.

    [IMG]
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  16. kizant Augur

    I never troll people. Such slander. :(
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  17. Szilent Augur

    For those like me watching the pros & playing along with the home game, Renaii in those two parses cast 12.9 spells/minute for the 32 minute Feb9 battle that included a death, and 14.8 spells/minute for the 19 minute Feb2 battle. 13 & 15 times per minute just touches on the spell bar, AAs & such are on top of that, plus kept pet & meleed approximately full time (can tell from the Banestrikes/NET/Omorden/etc procs)
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  18. PhantasmaRathe Journeyman

    best pull class in game due to the myriad of options available to do the job
  19. Yendar Augur

    Is there any other way to cleric?
  20. Ninelder Augur

    Not trying to be critical here, but you were implying that enchanters should be using single target MR here:

    Your numbers rundown was actually making me think that maybe i need to give single target MR another test again to see if it was worthwhile. But in Renaii's parses above he is not casting any single target MR. Did I misread?

    As for chromatic stab and the appropriation line I have found they seem to proc GoHT and GoGM more than our big nuke or dots do. This is something I haven't parsed, just it seems to work that way, so I am always using mainly appropriation to proc those two things(along with the mana pump) even saving my bifold focus to twincast it on my group. While i can make parse, I only intend for my group mates to and adjust my spells accordingly.