Bard DoTs need to have a mana cost, imo

Discussion in 'Hybrid' started by Niloiv, Feb 3, 2020.

  1. Niloiv Elder

    I would like to see our DoTs gain a mana cost component (of at least 10 /wink, so they can be affected by our psalms of Potency) It would allow for developers to play with the power of the DoT balanced by a cost factor.

    And add something interesting in the AA tree that would give an adps component for the DoT. Insults are fun with that AA focus.
  2. Dhurgan Augur

    The DoTs with the focus AAs are fine as is. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
    Scornfire and code-zero like this.
  3. Derd Augur

    No thank you
    smash and Wulfhere like this.
  4. Szilent Augur

    it's unlikely that simply adding a mana cost would "turn on" the focuses as you're implying. Notice that Insults having mana cost doesn't make them fire Sympathetics, for instance
  5. Niloiv Elder

    That is certainly a fair point (but insults are magic, right?)
    But putting the song focus aside, if DoTs had a mana component perhaps Devs would feel more comfortable expanding on them? I would think it would a fun challenge to learn the "optimal" path for "barding." But im sure at this juncture it would be difficult to change the paradigm.
  6. Cloud the Third Augur

    I am fine with them costing mana if you give bards mana regen. You do know bards can't regen mana or end while not out of combat right?
    Funky likes this.
  7. Niloiv Elder

    lol - yes,
  8. Funky Augur

    with the use of alliance/insults... i burn through mana fast enough.. having dots use mana would just make it worse... especially with our lack there of mana regen capability.

    same as how now with the heavy cost of BB and VS.. endurance just vanishes.

    as far as potency goes.. that's for magic/fire.. so in the chance of having mana cost on dots making the dot damage increase from potency... you will increase what? just the fire one? when is the last time you have used the AE magic dot? i haven't used it in YEARS personally.

    so.. mana cost for dots.. that's a hard pass for me
    code-zero and Aenvar like this.
  9. Cloud the Third Augur

    Our AE Dots never cost mana that was our AE Nuke but pretty sure that one was always limited to 5 targets which they moved all our aes to only hit 5-8 targets.
  10. Jhenna_BB Proudly Prestigious Pointed Purveyor of Pincusions

    Wouldn't a small mana cost open up the casting of all these fancy symp procs, every server tick? I haven't spoken to Nilo about this, just saw his thread. Bard is the class I know the absolute least about, which is why I ask.
  11. Szilent Augur

    It would not
  12. Funky Augur


    ok yeah the AE dot doesnt cost mana but it doesn't have a target limit.. and i could be wrong but im pretty sure the AE DD used to not have a target limit but that was recently changed (same as how wiz/mage beam spells were changed in the past)
  13. Cloud the Third Augur

    AE DD always had a target limit.
  14. Jhinx Whimsical Chinchilla

    Denon's Desperate Dirge, our targeted AoE DD song, had no target limit for the longest time, which got the big old nerf bat with the September patch notes to 5 targets max.

    "- Bard - Added a target limit of 5 to the Denon's Desperate Dirge line of AE damage songs."
    (https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/game-update-notes-september-18-2019.259523/)
    Funky likes this.
  15. Cloud the Third Augur

    Hmm you know they increased the limit right? Used to only hit 4 targets and for some reason they changed it to 5. Denon's was always a green spell icon which was used for all limited aes. The other bard songs that were AE dots unlimited targets were always the dark blue ones.

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/denons-desperate-dirge-hit-4-or-all.247499/

    My guess is this had to do with some kinda spell change they added on AEs that limits their hits.

    My guess from looking at the spell history is this maxtargets field wasn't used but spells had some kinda limit on some of them but they changed it so the limit is now on all the spell data. Clearly druid targeted ae spells were always only max of 4 targets but the spell data didn't show in lucy til 2018.

    Bard Denon's History from Lucy
    2019-09-19 04:12 Changed Maxtargets from 0 to 5

    Druid Quad AE History from Lucy
    2018-09-20 17:00 Changed Maxtargets from 0 to 4
    Sirene_Fippy likes this.
  16. Sengir New Member

    I think it never had a cap and the mana cost was the factor that balanced it. But in TSS we started using it more, as the mana cost was not that bad, and from there it went even easier to chain cast it.
  17. Jhinx Whimsical Chinchilla

    I used to be the DPS on a Plane of Innovation Enchanter Stun Field XPing group in my earlier days using only Dirge to kill 100+ mobs as the only one doing DPS.
  18. Jhinx Whimsical Chinchilla

    ^

    Exactly, that mana cost, without OOC regen was brutal, as you'd take 40+ minutes to get your mana back after a blowing your wad on your bunched up trains.

    Had a max AA guildy that used to live in Nightmare pulling everything on the graveyard side of the chasm. He would grab KEI and some mod rods, then blow everything up and quickly run to Tranquility to AFK as he medded up, while maintaining his buffs in a safe location.

    This is the reason why bards were getting in trouble for zone disruption from the sheer lag that would come from 3x 7000 mana bards pulling and murdering all of Plane of Fire's field 2 (when the named weren't up...summons and AoEs are owie if you're fighting Fire in era).

    From memory, which is far from trustworthy, the base hit for an Amplified Denon's Desperate Dirge was 2666 and 7999 on a crit to everything in a small range around your target, and an even closer range you would have to be to the mobs to cast the song. A bit of lag and you're a fine red mist, which is funny since it's your pull that was probably causing the lag with the mobs rubber banding behind you.

    Tis why it was important to only do such things in empty zones, and to clear out if anyone else pops in.
  19. Cloud the Third Augur

    Maybe they bugged it at some point and broke the limits to the number of targets and that is when you started using it. I know I used to use it all the time in the lower levels and it had a limit of 4.

    The AE one that hit unlimited targets I used to use all the time was monkey sticks.

    And it never said unlimited mobs. A dark dirge that causes between 315 and @1 damage to %T enemies in an area around your target. VS the real PB AE that hit unlimited targets A screeching dissonance that causes pain to all nearby creatures and makes them more susceptible to magic.
  20. Sengir New Member


    Thing is, I think you may be right too. Maybe at some point they put a cap in Denon's Desperate Dirge because of bard AE in PoP. When in TSS we got an upgrade in the Dirge line they forgot about the cap or maybe thought it was not longer necessary, and the other upgrades followed the trend. So maybe, before the patch, only the level 43 song was capped.