MegaThread:Top DPS Per EQ Expansion

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Lion of God, Jan 15, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. syth6 New Member

    What's your secret for aggro? Our zerkers claim to be threatcapped despite pulling barely top 10 ish parses. I know other classes have better threat reduction but if you're doing less than half the damage of a mage it shouldn't matter that much.

    As far as my contribution to the thread goes it's pretty much just confirming monks all the way down the line to SoF, with rogues biting at their heels in the 70-75s and sometimes wizards are around too. In SoD suddenly spellcasters; mages and wizzies on top then monks, followed by rogues warriors zerkers and rangers depending on the fight and groups (usually who has the main bard vs melody boxes). I should really point out the warrior bit here, their dps is stupid high (seen ours hit 17k on burn) if they're actually pressing buttons.
  2. Bobbybick Only Banned Twice

    I don't really have a secret for it. The warriors/knights in my guild did a good job of establishing aggro and allowed me to go all out on most stuff from 95% onwards, there would be the occasional time where if I'm running 7th early in the fight I could pull aggro but Zerkers aren't exactly made of paper and using their defensive AA cooldown is usually enough to keep them alive until a tank peels it back. But overall I mostly never worried about my aggro.
  3. Boze TLP complaint factory

    Adding to what Bobby said, as someone who pulls threat more often than I should when burning, gearing towards survival is a big help as well. Going AC heavy on gear/augs/powersource can make a huge difference with surviving when you're pulling agro for a single round. From there it's just play smart. Back out, turn off auto attack, etc. If they're barely making top 10 and claiming to be threat capped they're doing their burn stacks wrong though.
  4. Lowlife Lorekeeper

    Why do you say you pull more agro than you should on the BL?
  5. Boze TLP complaint factory

    I just mean I could be playing smarter and be less greedy with how I parse. Bst only has one agro ducking ability until UF
  6. Nicorus Elder

    Wizards in classic I see coming up as a good dps but I would add that by far the hardest classic content is sky and wizards won't even be able to land a thing on them. Ya you will be good on vox and naggy but those are easy mobs.

    I played a wiz on fippy classic to tbs and necro on phinny classic to don in citizen/ogc, Wizard does stay semi competitive through the tlps, you will rarely top anything but you won't be garbage, it's also a fairly easy class to play you just med and need to know resists. Necro I wouldn't recommend, it peaks in kunark and after that you will work like a dog twisting spell sets and jumping through hoops and still do 30 Percent less dps than the top dogs and it's a pretty bad group class as well by pop when charm is no longer an easy option.
  7. Legionarius - Xegony Elder

    You really have to truly define what it is you're looking for because DPS takes many forms, and there are a lot of factors to look at. Gear. Top gear? Not top gear? Classes respond differently to not having or having capped accuracy (through heroic dex) once you start getting into OOW (GoD?). Also, even if they're all max geared, some classes are just better equipped to perform well in group content and some shine on long raid fights. Some suffer greatly on fights with a lot of strats involved and some shine with bursting intermittently (wizard comes to mind). People always rate "top dps" by some dumb mob that everyone can unload on but so far the people who perform the best in these situations (like Berserkers) you can't touch on those fights, but if you look at the entire dps / damage parse across the whole raid or even across all off the boss fights you will almost never see them in the top 3 due to their cooldown structure. You really need to consider other things like what is the group structure like. Does everyone in that group know what they're doing and understand how to help each other? Are the right classes in there for a DPS group? Do they have critical items/spells that help boost one another's performances? I play a rogue on Selos and there's a pretty big difference in my performance when i'm in the main DPS group. We have a Shaman, a bard, a berserker, a ranger, me (rogue), and a Monk. We all understand what it takes to pull out the best performance for ourselves and to assist others in doing the same; though we may forget to do our foot buffs, or forget to do our Aura's *cough, berserker* when we know we have to really buckle down and take the encounter serious we do it. Boy does it make a difference... In everquest it's not about the damage meters. Those are a tool to fine tune yourself and others. The classes are all made to feed off one another and if you're part of that puzzle and the rogue does more damage because of it, or the berserker completely destroys a boss because of everyone's contribution then that's something to be enjoyed by all and proud of. This responsibility is the raid leaders, and all of the players for everything to come together and when it does, it's real damn rewarding. Play the class you love.

    With that said i will say there is a real issue with wizards and probably mages performances in top content due to what i've randomly decided is resist checks and excessive threat with no dumps from Gates of Discord to probably even DoDH. There's a big disparity in the performance that melee can put out, and what a lot of the casters can muster up.

    That's my 2cp!
  8. Bobbybick Only Banned Twice

    Here's some parses from tonight's Solteris clear on Selo, excluding Rear Guard Balreth because its a balance fight.

    Combined:Everything except Balreth in 2522s, 80852k @32058 | Monk 4506k@1786 {7} | Berserker 4096k@1624 {7} | Berserker 4090k@1621 {7} | Monk 3985k@1579 {7} | Rogue 3483k@1380 {7} | Monk 3427k@1358 | Monk 3257k@1291 {7} | Monk 3107k@1232 | Warrior 2997k@1188 {7G} | Wizard + pets 2843k@1127 {7} | Warrior 2430k@963 {X7G} | Wizard + pets 2348k@931 {7} | Monk 2321k@920 | Rogue 2304k@913 | Berserker 2253k@893 {7}

    Combined: Sisters in 320s, 16482k @51505 | Monk 1008k@3148 | Monk 888k@2776 | Monk 867k@2710 | Rogue 803k@2508 | Berserker 749k@2340 | Monk 699k@2183 | Wizard 680k@2124 | Monk 656k@2050 | Berserker 643k@2008 | Wizard + pets 568k@1776 | Berserker 538k@1679 | Rogue 536k@1674 | Monk 509k@1590 | Warrior 491k@1533 | Monk 462k@1443

    Combined: Event 2 Aprosis in 459s, 20978k @45704 | Monk 1021k@2223 | Berserker 1021k@2223 | Rogue 1000k@2178 | Berserker 858k@1869 | Monk 845k@1840 | Monk 830k@1808 | Monk 808k@1761 | Monk 735k@1601 | Wizard 702k@1530 | Warrior 654k@1424 | Bard 642k@1398 | Warrior 639k@1392 | Monk 602k@1312 | Monk 594k@1295 | Warrior 557k@1213

    Note: Astire we have the rogues killing adds because we kill spear first so they won't be on this
    Astire, the Lunar Eclipse in 183s, 10095k @55165 | Berserker 825k@4510 {7} | Berserker 623k@3403 {7} | Monk 525k@2869 {7} | Monk 514k@2806 {7} | Monk 489k@2671 {7} | Warrior 487k@2659 {7G} | Wizard + pets 484k@2645 {7} | Berserker 440k@2406 {7} | Monk 416k@2273 | Berserker 409k@2236 | Monk 406k@2216 | Wizard + pets 373k@2040 {7} | Warrior 354k@1934 {7G} | Monk 314k@1718 | Warrior 313k@1711 {7}

    Combined: Irrissa the Seer in 595s, 18482k @31062 | Berserker 939k@1578 | Monk 933k@1568 | Monk 921k@1548 | Monk 831k@1396 | Rogue 816k@1371 | Monk 808k@1357 | Berserker 793k@1333 | Monk 793k@1332 | Warrior 683k@1148 | Wizard 661k@1111 | Wizard 611k@1027 | Rogue 601k@1009 | Berserker 517k@869 | Monk 512k@860 | Monk 494k@830

    As you can see in TBS meleequest is still the name of the game, we're heading into SoF/SoD where casters power up a bit I'm looking forward to see where they land with the AA changes.
  9. Rage Lorekeeper

    That's probably not the best raid for comparisons since we only had 2 bards and both were in melee groups.

    But generally melee dps is completely dominant from GoD -> TBS. The out of era innate damage AAs ruin the class balance and are just another reason there's so much population decline in the 70 stretch.
  10. ManglerWizard New Member

    Since the changes last year made to damage reporting on MOTM mobs the caster damage is now reporting correctly. So to accurately discuss top DPS per expansion, you need to take this in to account because it makes a big difference in particular to Wizards.

    ***If played correctly and optimally (which can be rare) wizards can be expected to do the following per expansion.***

    CLASSIC -
    Wizards are almost useless in Sky DPS wise, everyone knows this.
    They are the number one DPS on Vox and Naggy if Vox and Naggy are fought in a way such that dodging AE's isnt neccesary, allowing the wizard to rain with ease. They are also the number one DPS on CT 8/10 times. Innorruk they parse near the top but aren't the top DPS class.

    KUNARK -
    Wizards will be at the top of the parse rarely in this expansion. It doesn't favor them very well. Talendor and Gorenaire they are always the top DPS class when played well. A couple of the VP dragons they can also parse at the top, but they are the dragons in the back that not many people care about. Decent DPS on trak, but not the best. Overall, not a good expansion for Wizard DPS.

    This is where it starts to get interesting.

    VELIOUS -
    Wizards are the top DPS on ALL Kael fights including AoW (When geared with near maximum flowing thought and min maxing your damage per mana useage and mana regen between rains.) I will not share all my secrets on min maxing wizard DPS, they aren't hard to figure out, yet many don't know about them or are too lazy to use them because they figure it won't add much.
    ***Wizards being the top DPS on AoW is confirmed via 12+ raids with one of the top 2 guilds on Mangler and also winning a parse when the 2 best guilds squared off in a OW DPS race on AoW on mangler taking 1st place overall on the parse with over 140 participants***
    Wizards are also the top DPS class on Vulak and various other NToV dragons including Lady Nevedaria.
    Wizards can be top DPS on Dain, however Necros played optimally will often beat them on this fight.
    Wizards are trash DPS on Tunare. They parse near the top on Yelinak if not the top. CT they are average DPS.


    LUCLIN -
    Wizards are the indisputable top DPS class on ALL SSRA and VT boss fights. There are no exceptions. This goes for seru as well. The only significant boss fight wizards don't do well on in Luclin is Khati Sha for obvious reasons. SV can be won for wizards or not depending on how SV is fought.


    All of this assumes either BIS or near BIS in each expansion with 60ish player raids and a well geared / played core group of players.


    Sincerely,
    The #1 Wiz on Mangler
    Bobbybick likes this.
  11. Dresden Journeyman

    Yeah!

    Sincerely,
    The #1.5 Wiz on Mangler
  12. McJumps TLP QoL Activist

    Just based on playing on phinny from Classic - Rain of Fear, if each class is given all the ADPS they desire and the person behind the character knows what they are doing...

    Classic-TBS: Monk, no one else even comes close, especially with the changes to Monk Crit tables recently. The occasional Mage or Wizard or Zerker might top a parse here or there in the later expansions, but overall, its an easy win for Monks without much effort. Rangers have a period during Luclin where AAs make them very competitive DPS (Only when they have trueshot running) but otherwise its Monks by a mile.

    SoF, SoD, UF - Mostly Monk again, but other classes have caught up considerably. During this era on phinny Monks did not yet have their crit tables adjusted and they were still on top of most nightly parses, so I assume with the updated crit tables this will be an even more significant win.

    HoT, VoA and RoF - Monks again are at the top, but share much more of the spotlight with Mages, WIzards and Zerkers and Rogues. Most of the burn phases in HoT had monks at the top, but this seemed to shift to a toss up between monk and/or mage/wizard in VoA. Zerkers and rogues get a lot better in RoF compared to HoT and VoA. Well played Rangers will also do very good on specific encounters during this era.

    CoTF and beyond- Just from my experience testing CoTF for launch it seems like Rogues get a big boost in DPS going from RoF to CoTF. Same story with Zerkers and Rangers. Mages and WIzards dominate burn phases at this point. Monks still do very good damage, but it is no longer a given that they will be the top (insert number of monks in the raid) ranks of the nightly parse. Not sure how the new 23 delay 2HB weapons will play into this given that Monk crit tables were adjusted to be equal with Rogues, but we will see.

    TL;DR: Monks will dominate the first 2+ years of a phinny style TLP server with very little deviation. After TBS Casters start to shine but it is not until about VoA-RoF that they really come into their own. Rogues and zerkers do very well in RoF and beyond, and from what I hear from live, Rogues and Zerkers are the Top DPS most of the time.
  13. ManglerWizard New Member

    PLEASE for the love of god stop talking about Phinny when we talk about top DPS classes. As I stated before in my post, the way damage is being reported for casters on MOTM mobs has been corrected to show the right amount of damage now. Before it was only recording a fraction of their actual DPS. Monks will not dominate when they square off versus a wizard when both players are geared well and playing the class to the best of their ability. Wizards crush them overall from Classic - PoP.

    I believe people are interested in the top DPS classes on current TLPs and TLPs going forward. Not a TLP that was incorrectly reporting caster damage years ago.
  14. Numiko Augur

    Necro's do very well in parses too now (on phinny).
  15. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    Can confirm your Rangers are if they don't top every Parse on any boss outside of SSRA when they have Trueshot up.
  16. Legionarius - Xegony Elder

    Yeah... He trollin
  17. ManglerWizard New Member

    Correct, I still beat a nearly attack capped ranger that has avatar and savagery and is trueshotting one of those bosses. Is the end result close? Yes. Approx 1 out of 10 times they will win.

    It doesn't surprise me that this is surprising you guys. I have witnessed many other people play wizards on Mangler, almost all of them have no idea how to min max their damage. What shouldn't surprise you is the amount of people playing everquest that aren't good at it. Everquest has a population compromised of a lot of boomers that aren't good at video games. Good wizards are hard to find. Most people are clueless and have no idea a Wizard requires effort and some degree of skill (relative to melee dps classes) to reach their full potential.
  18. Ayoheee Augur

    Depends on the fight length. W/ full roster raiding everything dies fast enough that trueshot uptime is a big pct of the fight and it's impossible to beat a ranger. On splits or lower numbers raids wizards can hang w/ trueshot rangers.
  19. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    Nah they should be neck and neck with the Wizards even when they don't disc at all. On short fights where Trueshot last the whole fight Rangers can put up almost 800dps on some bosses.

    Literally had a few races on Phinny where i put up double the second place DPS numbers and Phinny was before the Druid Dot revamp.
  20. Kontra Augur

    ManglerWizard isn’t wrong. I played a wizard on phinny in the #1 guild and even with skewed reporting, our wizards for the most part dominated the majority of classic—>luclin. There’s just a lot of terrible wizards out there that have no clue how to min/max. This entire post is subjective though, as there’s way too many factors involved that affect parsing from one guild to the next, let alone one server to the next. But from the perspective of a top guild wizard classic thru luclin who mainchanged to monk just before PoP (speedfocus comes in), it was basically wizard and monk all along, with rangers in the mix luclin/pop whenever trueshot was up. SKs that know how to weave were crazy strong in Kunark/Velious too...Mages can also top parses if they know the class inside out in velious and luclin on some fights...but they have to be crazy good to pull it off.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.