Tank Mercenaries

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Sakura, Jan 20, 2020.

  1. Sakura New Member

    Depends on merc AA and length of fight. The longer the fight, the more Issues with merc tank’s mitigation become apparent. This isn’t a huge issue with real tanks and definitely needs addressed with mercenaries.
  2. Denial_Sinfae Augur

    I'd like to see 350k sustained parse "with just a bard". Seems like an exaggeration. Even with brd/sham I've seen peaks of 275k on a mob. It's very consistent ADPS vs not. It'll also never burn for 2 million. Don't really see this as OP or unbalanced. I personally don't use it cuz of the aggro is too much to maintain while I'm casting on my boxes (yeah, I play my characters individually, novel concept).

    I don't think anyone rejected the idea that the tank mercs could use a boost. They also have innate problems in the management of them.
    Laronk likes this.
  3. Laronk Augur


    You can't trust the "sustained" dps posts from many of the posters here, most of the time they just look at a couple random fights sometimes you'll get one where its a "the stars magically aligned for these exact 30 minutes"

    Even if you read through this thread people will act as if 350k ain't no big deal. Tell you what, go group with a couple pugs and you'll see what kinda damage real average non raider players are actually doing (partly because they're under aa'd under geared and don't know what they're doing). Rogue mercs in my groups often out dps randoms I invite into my group and I lose dps by inviting these people (I still invite them anyways)

    I don't think rogue mercs really need a nerf (though if there's some magic sauce to get them to sustain 350k over long periods of time then they need a nerf as they should be a so-so replacement for dps players)
  4. Sakura New Member

    No one asked for a nerf. It was a sustained and with a tbl raid group in t2tov
  5. Vumad Cape Wearer

    My Tank merc with about half the AA and valiant armor tanked loremaster in GD with my cleric and a cleric merc. Tank mercs on tanking are kind of close in ToV content, but ToV content fairly weak, as glassbreak stormbreaker in stratos 1-rounded my tank merc. Needing more than just a solid group cleric with ENC slow to do a T1 named puts them a little weak on the ability to tank.

    The big issue with tank mercs is there DPS. They are DPSing at 8k DPS which puts them behind a geared ENC animation with autogrant AA. I'm not saying that tank mercs needs to be doing the 100-300k DPS I am seeing from buffed warriors (without a bard or SHM) but 8k DPS is a pbig problem.

    My Wizard merc with valiant gear and about half the available AA runs around 50k DPS and when I burn only hits about 80k DPS. This is a big issue, as I am an ENC running twincast aura and MR proc aura, burning with IoG and etc. My casual DPS is about 100k with my burn DPS about 250k-300k without a bard or a druid. Meanwhile a 111 wizard with decent AA burns for 1 million DPS and DPSes over 300k range with little effort.

    The 180k DPS rogues are doing might seem like a lot, but rogues and zerkers are regularly putting out 400k DPS easily without burns, and a very very well geared / AA zerker burned out at 2 million DPS the other night on Tjoly (no bard or SHM).

    Clerics are doing just fine, as they are not that far behind my box cleric in raw healing ability. They might need a slight bump, maybe, but my cleric is not slacking and the mercs are doing a pretty solid job, minus the activated abilities and epic, which no merc should have anyway.

    So, in summary after a lot of time watching mercs...

    Warrior mercs need a slight increase in mitigation, a significant improvement in aggro and a massive, massive overhaul in DPS.

    Wizard mercs also need just a rediculous overhaul in DPS.

    Rogues are probably right on their DPS and squishiness, but they need a correction to their "balanced" mode so they continue to function correctly. They do pull a lot of aggro on burn, but they are on burn, so it kind of makes sense, except when SKs and warriors are struggling to keep aggro from a merc at 180k DPS, something is kind of wrong, because zerkers and rogues at 1-2 million DPS (500k not burning) are not pulling aggro.

    Cleric mercs, maybe, but tanks do so much with cleric mercs I just really don't see what the fuss is about.
  6. Bigstomp Augur

    My cleric merc does 0 dps. Compared to what a real cleric can do, I think the tank merc being bad (very bad) dps is fair.
    They're both there for a specific role, someone to heal you if you can't find a healer. Or someone to take hits for you if you can't find a tank.

    Presumably the rest of your group then are good to go and shouldn't need them for dps too.
    Use a dps merc if you are lacking dps.

    A merc is supposed to be a fill in, for a specific role that you are lacking, not a regular group member.
    Nudia, Whulfgar and svann like this.
  7. Ninelder Augur

    Here is an honest comparison. I am sitting in EW boxing my raid-geared druid and raid-geared enchanter farming the restless coldain for shiny drops from a relatively safe spot near the bridge(only wolves and mammoths roam by.)
    I have 5 dwarves at the spawn to kill, if i run out i pull one of the skeleton phs for Caldcane.

    My druid has 5 merc slots of Raid Buffed Max AA Max Gear Tank mercs to use. My chanter uses a healer merc, cause you need at least two healers for a merc tank to have a snowballs chance in hell. If i single pull blue mobs pre-slowed the Tank merc will last about an hour before it gets an unlucky one-round from a blue con restless dwarf. Sometimes the raid buffs will actually start to wear off before it dies, if I am really lucky!

    I get up to go get coffee, when I come back I see a group geared shadowknight guildee who just came back to game six months ago after a 5 year break runs in on my restless coldain camp(he did no CC.) Partially buffed he tanks all 3 coldain that are up in the camp, doing more DPS than my druid and enchanter combined and easily kept alive by his self-buffed healer merc.

    TL;DR: If you are one of the morons who even think of bringing up some story about how your healer merc sucked at one point or another as some kind of comparison to how incredibly sucktastic tank mercs are you are obviously lying through your teeth.
    Fanra and Vumad like this.
  8. Sakura New Member

    Tank mercs are horrible either way you look at it. It's sad that DPS mercs get an upgrade before they do.
  9. Ruhtra Lorekeeper

    A tank merc with probably 3/4ths max tank AA's, with full vigilant armor tanks better than a T1 group geared warrior, with 19k AAs and 40ac+ augs in every slot at 114. If you look at the stats on the merc tab, the merc has 1696 AC more than my warrior and 35604 HP's more than him too. He doesn't have nearly the dmg spikes as my character.
    Mithra likes this.
  10. enclee Augur


    Tank mercs don't know how to use abilities properly, so they have to have a numbers edge. The player tank has to know how to use discs, aa's and positioning to their advantage.
    Vumad likes this.
  11. Ruhtra Lorekeeper

    Guess my point was that they aren't bad. For group content they can hold their own.
  12. Sakura New Member

    If mercs are supposed be fill ins, then why is my rogue merc bursting for up 375k, with a combined parse between 150k 350k over an hour of killing (depends on my group). That’s more than a fill in.

    Tank mercs are more in need of an upgrade then rogue mercs.
  13. Petalonyx Augur

    Sounds about right.
  14. FawnTemplar Augur

    So... what I am reading is... tank mercs are only effective if you are a boxer or have other players with you in group?
  15. Sakura New Member

    You can use a wizard as a tank in dps oriented raid group. Doesn’t make a wizard an acceptable tank. Tank mercs struggle in smaller group settings, because the damage they receive is no where near as stable as a PC. They have agro issues and waste any abilities they may have.
  16. Vumad Cape Wearer


    No one is advocating for an upgrade to rogue mercs because they recently got one. That is why you are seeing the results you are. My understanding is that rogue mercs were being reworked and then the person working on the project was reassigned or doesn't work anymore or something. Not sure if it is true. That was just the best explination I have been given as to why rogue mercs work and wizards and warriors are so bad.

    My rogue merc is doing about 150k and peaking at 220k. 350k maybe with a bard, but I know that is not an accurate number for normal grouping. Without haste my rogue quickly drops to about 80-100k DPS.

    Rogue mercs are setting the bar for what all mercs should be. Rogues are pretty well tuned right now, except for their aggro. Mage pets can't keep aggro off them, pallies and warriors really really struggle. Even SKs, the kings of hate, even have to work hard to keep them from dying.

    Warriors and wizards really really need an update badly. Clerics and rogues are fine. Unfortunately its hard for me to believe all these numbers talks wont result in a nerf of rogues before a fix of warriors and wizards. It pains me to have that attitude, but it's hard to be optimistic.
  17. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    Cleric mercs are currently using a poor choice of spells. It is almost as if the person who set them up has no idea on cleric spells. Only tank taking damage and on reactive they are using group heals, using lights instead of resolution, etc.

    Wizzy mercs being bad is again down to the poor choice of spells.
  18. Velisaris_MS Augur

    Since we're able to set a list of blocked buffs, we should be able to set a list of "don't cast" spells for cleric mercs. Have it apply only to journeyman mercs.
  19. Triconix Augur

    Bard and sham and the merc was parsed at 172k dps sustained for an hour of chain killing in GD. No way is your merc doubling mine. Considering I was casually doing well over 300k while swapping between multiple bando sets depending on pull, I dont see the dps merc as groundbreaking. He was last on the parse outside of the healer.
    Vumad likes this.
  20. Whulfgar Augur

    This..