Raid Loot Lockouts, Expedition lockouts.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Lisard, Jan 21, 2020.

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  1. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    I think that's actually not a bug. I believe that's (at least part of) the intent of those basepop lockouts. the other part of it would be if those basepop mobs drop loot, to prevent you from cycling the instance to farm it constantly.

    Now, if you were zoning in and killing 1 mob to get the basepop lockout and then dropping and re-getting so you would have a clear path to your next kill THAT would be questionable... not that anyone would ever do something like that to shave time off a zone clear <insert awkward pause>....
  2. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    I disagree, kind of. They'll never SAY they were wrong.... but I think the finger pointers would admit they're wrong by doing the same thing... and it'll become widespread enough that the ban hammer will come down *hard* at a later point in time... probably in a future (read: the next) expansion.

    personal opinion though. I don't particularly care what anyone does that doesn't effect me directly. so you get some extra loot, get that extra bump to DPS for T2 that others won't get because they followed the lockouts..... who really cares. stuff's gonna be farm-mode 2 hours after unlock and everyone + their alts and alt account's alts will be geared out by summer anyways. this is the casual's expansion.
  3. Jimbob/Silvarfox Elder

    We didnt even do it to get ahead on dps or anything like that. We did a 1 time raid for funzies and made a decision that mains over alts. We didnt even previously plan the raid. It was just a raid night like normal but we decided to do something different then raid tbl or gmm again. RoI still most likely clear T2 faster then us. SR will probably drop to 5th place like normal and Ms will probably be somewhere between 2-4 then someone will accuse someone of exploiting and someone will accuse someone of not even doing the loot just FFA or letting it all rot. Then we will have me on here getting high and babbling on for hours trolling everybody cause hey. I smoke meth. Then a partridge will mate with a pear tree. A zebra will eat a grape on a subway in paris thinking hey! Why do these guys lay on the floor when they hear a german accent? Trump will be voted in again and putin will hack a japanese election while eating a baby kangaroo his horse shot while on a vaction to costa rica. Im sondone with this forum. Time for sleep
  4. Leex Pewpewer

    Hmmm..


    Why don't you guys let the devs make an official response before throwing each other under the bus? I will say, it's very entertaining watching one guild call out another for "exploits" ( isn't that a forum ban? ) while they themselves exploited to such a level as half their guild was suspended..

    If you have to ask if something is ok, that's indicative of you knowing it wasn't 100% legit.

    The folks talking about how many minutes ROI/MS beat them by are cute, It's T1.

    Man the forums have gotten so feisty these day's.
    Axxius, Funky, Lannin and 2 others like this.
  5. Szilent Augur

    really?
    Goburs likes this.
  6. Ravanta Suffer Augur

    Since the AoC instance starts with Thylex of Veeshan up...

    Guild clears all of the targets in tov, except Lady Mirenilla. Lady Mirenilla is not special, but she's an easy target, and she's close to the goal of the zone, Vulak, so she's overwhelmingly the last dragon to kill.

    Main raid force splits up into however many raids they can make that can kill Vulak. Vulak is where the candy is, it's what people want. More Vulaks is what people want. That same guild who cleared everything in ToV except Lady Mirenilla breaks up and forms as many raids as it can think can individually kill Lady M and then Vulak. (Vulak spawns when the last triggering dragon dies, while Thylex of Veeshan is up)

    A new raid and instance is formed, using the lockout of the version of the zone that has everything killed except Lady Mirenilla.

    So instead of 1 Vulak per TLP AoC cycle, many TLP guilds during Velious can get 2, some even more. And yes, if that guild has people with multiple accounts (aoc lockouts are account wide) they can get even more Vulak corpses than their original raid force would have the potential to do.


    TLDR: Some raids, on TLP's...you're completely mistaken. AoC's work in a way that a guild can clear content once, and kill the final mob 2, 3, 4 times.
    Every guild capable of doing this in that era, does this, and should. My personal experience on Agnarr is that the raiding guild who had open world Vulak on farm (on TLP's Thylex's respawn timer was 24 hours + a 12 or was it 24 hour random window) sometimes usually didn't bother to do Vulak splits because they got so many Vulaks from open world.

    Agent of Change instances have some specific differences to live...but the end result is basically the same. However...on live, the way raid lockouts work is simpler (as there are no AoC's) but the thing to keep in mind is the raid lockout system has been adjusted multiple times and it has been commented on that the lockout is for participating in the raid, not for the reward of the raid. On live, in it's current form, it's even simpler. It's simply just sending the character a /dzadd.
  7. Kontra Augur

    I haven’t really followed what actually went down in this case, but from what I gather based on reading this thread:
    Raider X participates in T1 raid on day 1, event is beaten, Raider X has access to loot in chest to bid dkp on/be considered for, receives standard lockout and loot lockout.
    Raider X does not participate in same T1 raid on day 2 (run by alts/anyone that missed day 1 win) , event is beaten, and Raider X is still able to be added to instance and STILL ABLE TO LOOT from chest/ have access to loot in chest that he/she already had a previous loot lockout from due to day 1 win.

    If this is what happened, no one should be arguing about anything in terms of “what side are you on” Anyone in a leadership position in and endgame raiding guild should have the wherewithal and the common sense to realize this is unintentional and needs to be addressed BEFORE assuming it’s ok to award loot to Raider X even though he/she had a previous loot lockout from the same event during the lockout window. That’s the purpose of the loot lockout in the first place. I agree they should NOT be able to loot from the 2nd chest to begin with, but if they can due to a mistake being made at the code or developer level, that doesn’t make it right to loot first and ask questions later.
    MasterMagnus likes this.
  8. Kontra Augur

    With respect to the NToV discussion, it would be like me looting an Abashis in Vulak raid 1 Monday, getting the lockout, then being added to Vulak raid 2 Tuesday to loot Gharns. Definitely not intended, even if it were possible.
    Talk about what it actually is, stop muddying the waters.
  9. Ravanta Suffer Augur

    I don't believe I was. I was clarifying that TLP's use the instances to get more loot for the guild than you would originally think at first glance. I understand what you're saying, and I think we all do. I do regret making the post, because you're exactly right...it's not specific to the topic at hand. All good.
  10. The real Sandaormo Augur

    I don’t have alts, I have main change candidates.

    If you exploit lock outs to gain an advantage, you suck. Prove me wrong.
  11. Sithsonn Elder

    How is splitting the raid force into half alts and half mains and still getting the same amount of loot any different then raiding with mains, then raiding on alts, and getting the same amount of loot? Shoot if anything we deserve a pat on the back (; would've been a lot easier with half mains in that alt force we had, I mean damn we had to restart Servant of the Sleeper.. Still beat it tho! I am just ready for this to comeback and bite all your that thought we were gonna get banned with a DZ instance lock after its been gotten. Which is cool when it comes time that we wanna gear up our alts cause we pretty much one shot all of t1 on our alts already. I mean guys, seriously, this is really all so stupid... I love that what we did was blasted on the boards, It wasn't and exploit. it was a fun night and hey we got some more loot for mains! But don't worry, an actual split raid will probs save me a lot of deaths on my beastlord, so thank you!
  12. Sithsonn Elder

    I hope you guys achieved what you wanted by opening and continuing yet another pointless thread, that is gonna end up screwing us on gearing up our alts later on.. And one thing about me, I could care less about your guild tag, if your a cool person, your cool with me. I happily await the trolls to reply to my post, not having a clue who I am. I am trying to make sense of what we did was no different then split raiding with half alts and mains. If you guys don't see that, than that's just that you being petty towards MS. Also funny how you think gear has got to do with anything lmao, I could give the best 2her in the game to a zerk and he isn't gonna magically start dpsing like a pro... I have the new 2her actually and hmm imagine that my parse is still relatively the same :( I am also sad that cactus gate and older exploits where even brought up.... Wasn't mature of the MS who decided to try to have a comeback on this whole ordeal against us. Wasn't fair to RoI or any of the other guilds mentioned. There is definitely something here to learn from all this but I don't think all you old people can switch yo ways and drop stupid grudges within a game. But honestly guys, We didn't exploit, we just visited getguud.com and decided to beat T1 on our alts and hey there was a nice reward at the end of that. EQ is too good a game to have the forums this volatile. Lets clean up the community and on that note I'm heading out! #VoteforSith2020
  13. Sithsonn Elder

    btw I wont see replies till later today lol, so hopefully I'm still relevant when I get to it
  14. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    Not directed at any individual, but rather everyone that used an alt to raid a lockout, and loot another item on their main (or participated knowing the plan).

    It's called a LOCKOUT for a reason, and every one of you that EXPLOITED the lockout KNOW YOU EXPLOITED. The word lockout is not vague or subject to interpretation. And just because you can do something in the game doesn't mean you're allowed to regardless of the rules.

    Sputtering little 'what-about-isms', or saying "nobody said we couldn't do it" is so f-ing weak! But you've got nothing to defend yourself with otherwise.

    If your main is locked out of a raid, you're locked out of looting, unless you 'work around' that limitation with an EXPLOIT.

    There are rules all over the place, like on the forums here, that you can be aware of and exploit if you so choose. Like getting suspended or banned on your main account, and coming here with an alt account to keep posting while pretending to be someone else, to circumvent a ban.

    Some of us see right through all the little excuses, we see, you knew it was wrong, and you chose to do it anyway. Face the consequences of your choices. And I hope those consequences are more than me calling you out.
  15. Lannin Elder

    I wish we could get a tier of raids that hasnt been run over and over in beta by higher guilds until they are blue in the face and no group mission with watered down versions of the strats and call that the race. That would be a nightmare on the dev and QA teams but at the end of the day it was who could figure out the mechanics and adapt the fastest not come in raid release day and it's back to old business

    Preorder this year and you and your guild could have been there as well if u weren't. :confused:
  16. Jonasin Elder


    Correct, loot lockouts are designed for base population. There are not loot lockouts for events.


    My lockouts tell me certain events are locked out, which prevents me from participating in said events. I do not have any lockout on Chest_of_<insert event name>.
    Allayna likes this.
  17. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh


    But because Chest_of_<insert event name> can only be obtained in the event you are Locked Out of, you are therefore locked out of looting that chest.

    Unless you use an EXPLOIT to circumvent that restriction.

    You're trying to say, "I didn't rob the bank, I only took something out of a safe deposit box that wasn't mine, but it was open!"
    svann and Mintalie like this.
  18. Schadenfreude Augur

    All this fuss over this and that meanwhile there's people happily clearing T1 on their main on Xegony, logging in their primary alt on FV and clearing T1 again, logging in their secondary alt on FV and clearing it a third time before finally logging on their throwaway trash tier alt and watching as hordes of bots beat the raids for them.

    The first week the order was slightly different as the secondary alt guild didn't raid until Saturday but you get the general idea.
  19. Ravanta Suffer Augur

    We're going full circle here, but what I think you're not aware of is that being added to the dz, via the expedition leader simply typing /dzadd playername when the event is beaten is all that it takes. There are no shenanigans going on, it's simply the basic raid command that is used the exact same way as when someone is added to an ongoing raid that may have logged on late or something.

    The only thing that the lockout serves, is to prevent the same character from participating in the raid. That is, the same characters cannot be used to kill the raid. Obviously. The lockout does not prevent them from being /dzadded after the chest is on the ground.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion on how the expedition commands should work, but this is the way expeditions work on live.
    Allayna and MasterMagnus like this.
  20. MasterMagnus The Oracle of AllHigh

    The best analogy is a Gangster boss hiring a petty underling to break into a bank and pick the lock on a safety deposit box. Then the boss walks in and grabs the loot that was "just sitting out in the open, free for the taking".

    Now the boss comes here and says, "Hey, I did nothing wrong. I'm not the first to do it. People have been taking the contents of open safety deposit boxes for years!"

    That you can rob a bank, and other people have robbed banks, changes nothing, and does not make it acceptable.

    If, by Ngreth's statement "You can do anything you want with loot you earn", and the fact that you could sell or give loot rights to another player that is locked out on that, means DPG is fine with you doing it, I'd need official word that was their intent.

    I certainly don't propose that anyone who wants to give or sell a reward has to manage if the other person has a lockout or not.

    If you are 'Locked Out' of a structure, you are locked out of anything within that structure, in the real world. And the fact that they call it a Lock Out belies their intent (initially when it was designed at least).

    So NO, you can't assume it was ok for you to take or buy loot on any character, from any character, if you had a lockout on that event. The fact that it is and has been done for, lo these many years, means nothing.

    To be clear, I'm not thinking people need to be banned or suspended for this. They need to make a ruling on it, and all move forward from there.

    But when it comes to me and Forum Quest, you are damn sure gonna get called out on doing it, then turning around, pointing fingers and acting like you did nothing wrong.

    We see the mob bosses that structure it so they have plausible deniability (or just copy the first person who actually came up with it).

    :cool:
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