TOV experience design will hurt raiding

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Fian, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. Bamboompow Augur

    More than never but less than a lot. Discs drop and tanks sometimes do as well. Transitions can be rough due to mechanics even. Seriously if these raids are easy enough that no one dies, there will be more threads featuring complaints that all the raids are too easy.
  2. Allayna Augur

    On a given cycle of TBL raid content, if I die once I’m shocked. The expansion is deep farm, and we often push the limits in our guild, (hold my beer moments are plentiful)....

    On a given night in ToV raids on beta, (learning, testing the content and tuning in TBL raid gear), the only raid I end up throwing a handful of corpses is at is the ToFS 1 raid due to cross aggro, leash insta DT mechanics...

    Casuals die far more often (raiders and groupers alike)....
    Ofearl, Laronk and -----Cinexa----- like this.
  3. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    ahh nostalgia.... lots of bribes to various tanks and officers to start events early.... oh wait, you mean it wasn't just me doing that?

    /tell Lisard 10k if you go start it up early.... the chanter's don't need 2 more minutes.
    Raccoo, Allayna and -----Cinexa----- like this.
  4. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    ^This.

    I see this happen even on Phinigel, and this server has a pretty decent community, it must be far worse on live servers, building almost all of the xp gain into content that must be done with other players shuts the door on any poor b***ard who struggles to get a group.

    This game is OLD, the players are too, that means cliques are the norm & established groups are going to be fine but everyone else is SOL, the PUG scene is deader than a Dodo.

    There really does need to be viable molo experience which doesn't leave a player who has fallen behind even more disadvantaged by xp from mob kills being utterly pathetic, there are plenty of players who will be left to their own devices by circumstances they cannot control & while some players do go out of their way to help the stragglers there just aren't enough of those samaritans to keep up with the people getting left behind due to seasonal playtimes not lining up with the initial progression rush (after which people are generally loathe to re-run it again & again).

    One of the biggest barriers to players returning to characters they played before is the amount of time it takes to catch up, this change of direction forces people to choose to not bother or depend entirely on the goodwill of others - which is often in short supply.
    Mithra likes this.
  5. Funky Augur


    and what class do you think they should tune this molo experience to? not all classes can accomplish the same moloing

    as for the people dont want to go back through the progression, this is only true to an extent... once most people are done with their main, more than likely they have an alt that they'll run through the exact same stuff later on. the only one i would not want to do again is CC/Mines just because i hate the zone. hated it in velious, dont like it now.
    Allayna likes this.
  6. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    In my experience the same cliques that ran their mains through run their alts through too, still leaving those not in the clique on the outside looking in.

    As for tuning molo experience per class - I don't think that's even needed, sure some classes can solo/molo extremely well but so long as any class can gain a reasonable & meaningful amount of XP from doing so & no player can gain better XP from doing so than they could in a group I don't see any major impediment to it.
    You possibly could account for class differences by having "actual solo" quests that are not able to be done in a group award xp differently based on the classes doing it, but that's really not something I would propose anyway as anything that works against grouping goes against EverQuest's basic design philosophy - but solo experience from kills doesn't & the range of xp gained does not need to be equal for all classes to make moloing at least viable for all.
  7. Ibudin Augur

    Its early yet, we'll all find our grind spots and with the cost of the type 3 augs, there will be constant groups doing the missions. Everyone will get progressed.

    Great expansion so far from what I see. I died 3 times last night on a raid, and think I lost over all 2% in 115 after being rezzed. That part does suck, because there are many AA's to grind yet but I'll figure It out.
  8. Funky Augur



    idk, kinda server/guild dependent as far as the cliques go. 95% of the time i end up grouping with random people from general chat. sometimes im just carrying people (but it's nice that they get to see new things and complete stuff they couldn't do before)..sometimes it's people (group geared/casual) that are actually quite skilled and knowledgeable of their class

    but the making moloing/soloing somehow good for any class just doesn't sound workable... compare going out and solo/moloing with a paladin vs cleric. (chose these 2 because both are strong against undead, which is what most of ToV is)... so if it's tuned to solo/molo capable of a cleric to get reasonable exp, paladin would be killing 10x faster, gaining 10x the exp.. and then we would be right back here saying it's not fair..

    then what would be a suggested fix?

    it's just the way the game is.. make friends, find a guild (casual or raiding) and progress through at your own speed....

    the expansion has been out for less than a month. just because so many are max level, done with progression, etc. does not mean you have to be. we all have a year before next expansion. enjoy it
    Ofearl likes this.
  9. Natal Augur



    They will be doing it with their regular friends though. There are still going to be a lot of people who are not in those groups, what about them if the solo route to exp is so inefficient?
  10. Fian Augur

    The simple solution would be to double the experience awarded for each mob kill whether that be via ZEM or actually updating all of the mobs. I am not sure how their AA calculation works, but that might need to be adjusted so that killing one mob still awards 1 AA.

    As for who is affected by the experience penalty, it would be the weaker raid guilds. Elite raid guilds that have everything on farm within 1 month of accessing all raids will fine tune things so that they rarely die. But weaker raid guilds that never beat all raids in an expansion, will suffer through the learning deaths all year long.

    I know in my raid guild, they opted to skip raids for 2 weeks to allow the players to earn their levels and build up some buffer for deaths. We also banned the 90% rez sticks. Players will either get a 96 rez or a call.
  11. Fian Augur

    One more thing. I do like the idea of increased rewards for completing progression, it just needs to be tuned down some. It appears you get 10% (at level 111) of a level for completing merc, partisan, or savior (merc + partisan) for a zone. That isn't too bad, and many of those are molo/duo friendly. What is out of balance is the missions. They give about 40% of a level at 111. You have someone run you through all 4 of those and you are around level 113. Imo, those should also give a 10% reward. Combine that with increased exp rewarded for each mob kill, and you would have a good balance of grinding and progression rewards.
    Skuz likes this.
  12. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    anyone who refuses to accept a 90% rez because it's not a 96% should get nothing but 10% rezzes for the rest of the year. crap like that is why "casual raiders" struggle to get the expansion on farm.
    Funky, Raccoo and Szilent like this.
  13. Fian Augur

    That was our rule until this expansion. The penalty for a 90 rez is just to severe.
  14. Szilent Augur

    making it more likely your force loses, so that all 54 players die, is a bigger penalty
  15. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    the penalty for a 90 rez vs a 96 rez is virtually nothing. take 10 of them in a night and you lose 40% of the exp you would have lost with no rez…. so give or take 5% normal exp. that's about an hour, maybe a little more of normal exp grinding with a reasonable group... or just over a lesson burn.

    so raiding 3 nights a week (which nobody really will for several months yet) you need to spend ~4 hours to get all your exp back, assuming you die 10x every night. that's not severe, that's.... EQ.
    Raccoo and Szilent like this.
  16. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    That be beyond dumb. I'm sorry, but it just is.
    Funky and Ofearl like this.
  17. Laronk Augur


    Really it's not a big deal to take a 90% rez, Actually I'd rather take a 90% rez then get fricken called and then have some dude try to rez me =)
    Funky and Szilent like this.
  18. Ofearl Slayer of all things Stupid

    Who the heck dies 10x a given raid night...

    If I die on a raid, I click the damned box... dont care if its a divine, call or a 0% rez... I’ll get the exp back.
    Funky and Szilent like this.
  19. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    numbers needed inflated so it would be, you know, an actually appreciable amount of experience lost. it's usually about once a month or two that I go out and get xp to recoup my losses on raids. couple days of lesson burns and i'm back to xping my alts.
  20. ottsca New Member

    My brain got hurt thinking of this. I need math-wiz help. If I am 15% into level 115 (115.15), how many 90% rezes can I accept during a raid before I delevel? This is one of those "a train leaves a station traveling 20 mph" sorts of questions I could solve in an hour. I'm sure someone here can solve it in 30 seconds and let me know my "death-threshold."