Devs have literally destroyed paladins and no one is saying a word

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Tutankamen, Dec 21, 2019.

  1. Redemption Lorekeeper

    My Hdex is 2156. im not even in half tbl raid gear. still mostly ros. while the gear helps some so does using every available dex aug. javascript:eek:penProfile('https://eq.magelo.com/profile/3610125')
    i love the changes paladins got this expansion. and sure 2 more down the road and there will be no undead again and we will be back at the bottom of the tank lfg queue. but for now its awesome. i'm 114 with no new aa's yet and still moloing a ton in the t1 zones. names included. it's really slow but hey that's nothing new for us but hopefully by the time i max aa's again i will feel just like i do when rolling through howling stones or sathirs.
    In the mean time if you plan on quitting feel free to donate your krono to me.
  2. Thraine Augur

    get an undead expansion and some pally complains about it. lol

    excuse me i need to go buy 1000 IVU potions ...
    Vumad likes this.
  3. Sobmre Augur

    Again, none of this matters......in great day break tradition we will see some kinda of change that will appease .00002 % of us and mess up the rest. all because of threads like this.

    In the same patch we will see SK's get another over powered something.......


    Good job guys
    Elyssanda likes this.
  4. p2aa Augur

    No, it's not awful. You could have said "our single target aggro is less good than the other tank classes", but "awful" not really. Also, with this expansion, you are now officially the 2nd best tank at generating AE aggro, be it undead or not undead mobs. Congrats for you btw (it's not a call to nerf something).

    No. On non undead expansions, I have not seen a single paladin refused because the group wanted a warrior or a SK. Mind you, I speak for good skilled paladins.
    Skuz and Laronk like this.
  5. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    I challenge you to group with some of my guild mates on a paladin and try and hold aggro when they are dpsing hard.

    Necros, zerkers, rangers, beastlords (oh, hah, and clerics with turn undead luck).

    The fact that I can keep aggro easily over people not trying hard or casuals that don't know how to use their abilities doesn't negate the fact that if I go all out, and good dps go all out, its a constant taunting back in front as I fall behind while spamming everything paladins get.

    SKs don't have that problem and neither do warriors. So yes, our aggro is "awful" since it means we literally can barely do our job in those situations.

    Good thing the content is so that even the necro and beastlord can tank this stuff just fine when they pull aggro.
    FawnTemplar likes this.
  6. Laronk Augur


    Really I think people downplay the ability for paladins being able to rez their group in combat and heal their group. I've had situations where my healer has died and I was able to deflection and rez the healer. Other people complain about that self reapplying dot in TOV, not me I can just cure it.

    I get invited to groups, I can go do partisians or grind with a bunch of "noobs" and not worry about what they're doing because I can keep myself and them alive. Being a paladin is a pretty good life even if we have some issues. I have a warrior on Emarr I prefer my paladin though I feel my warrior's agro is much better, my warrior can't heal him self if he gets a bad healer, sure he can have tanking discs going 100% of the time but what good does that do when heals aren't happening?
  7. Petalonyx Augur

    Meanwhile, in the group game, i want my mage pets to tank, and it is sometimes a struggle to avoid taking aggro on paladin, even with bold attacks off.

    I wont load some of the new utility/TT heal ToV spells that come with large increases to hate tacked on, even though their RoS and TBL counterparts are part of my permanent lineup (Audacity esp since the upgrade is like 2 more magic resist reduction, plus this spell will become fizzle-free with mastery of the past AA).
  8. Laronk Augur

    Mage pets are terrible at add agro and paladin heals have agro unless you stick to censure admonish and uhh the new one that starts with R
  9. Xanathol Augur

    Will someone please think of the paladins? If they are not one of the best tanks, healers, and dps, then what good are they???
    Sobmre and Diptera like this.
  10. Sobmre Augur

    We are the sad players who like the idea of a Knight in armor saving the day and stuff.
    you know Virtue, Selflessness, Courage, Hope.......all that stuff that gets us looked over.


    Elyssanda likes this.
  11. p2aa Augur

    You mean that with an entry spamming line of Crush of of the grotto + Force of Disruption + Crush of the Restless Ice + Valiant Defense + Protest for Honor + Sincere Force , so a total of 95 536 hate, you cannot hold aggro ? yes all these spells aren't insta cast, but still ?
  12. Allayna Augur

    Hit me up. MS paladins will gladly teach ROI paladins how to tank, (out aggro your Necros....?), dps, heal, cc if needed...

    The Paladins THIS expansion are in the best place they’ve been in for years. The only argument any paladin has at this point is about aggro/dmg output vs live mobs. I typically sustain around 300-350k dps over the course of a night, that dps + the right spell lineup should have you holding aggro against all but the very best Beastlords and Monks who are burning. Even then, it’s possible but requires some survivability spell sacrifice for more aggro.
    Ofearl and Redemption like this.
  13. Ofearl Slayer of all things Stupid

    Wait.. we got crushes this expac....
    Allayna likes this.
  14. Tucoh Augur

    What are necros doing to pull aggro off tanks?
    Allayna likes this.
  15. shiftie Augur

    Lol you need to stop drunk posting
  16. Sancus Augur

    Gathering Dusk, probably.
  17. Nennius Curmudgeon

    Hmmm Total posts per day here would be??
  18. Bigstomp Augur

    As arguably the weakest tank for aggro, I just don't understand this.
    Play with better pallys.
    Use gamparse.
    Look at what spells/aa's they're using.

    (wars are the weakest in a group for aggro, we do have buttons that will lock the out of a boss though)
    Allayna likes this.
  19. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    I don't know what to tell you. Do you group with people doing 1-1.2 million dps on group missions with suboptimal adps? I have. And guess what, can't keep aggro well enough off them. I function just fine. But no tank should be in a situation that it is mathematically impossible (outside of lucky taunts or using UA) to maintain actively managed aggro when a dps class burns.

    Zerkers are fine, finally got a group with a guildie last night and had no issue with aggro. So necros, beastlords, and rangers that aren't bowing (outside of undead prox aggro thing with multiples in camp).

    This isn't rocket science (we have 13 spell gems):

    Keep marr's on group
    Keep preservation up (spell gem 1)
    Chain cast on cool down (not the order, just noting count):
    crush 1 (spell gem 2)
    crush 2 (spell gem 3)
    stun 1 (spell gem 4)
    valiant (spell gem 5)
    protest (spell gem 6) (once per mob as they are dead before it fades)
    requiem (spell gem 7) (way more aggro than trying to sneak in dissident and up 3+ times as often)
    keep up harmonious (spell gem 8)
    fervent audacity (spell gem 9)
    FoD

    And using AE aggro almost on cool down, but subject to the timer, as needed:
    heroic leap
    hallowed loadstar
    beacon of righteousness

    Leaving space for some of these (not all of them) spells that you only cast if you have to (cool downs mean you can only cast the above spells and never have time for these spells)
    group heal 10 (first I'd drop at this point, but useful if aes are down and people have taken damage and have 4-5 in camp)
    burst heal 11
    splash 12 (definitely needed this expansion)
    protective 13 (if healing is good, this is worth dropping in group situation)
    twinheal nuke 14 (for groups, not dropping this until we get rank 3 spells, because splash rank 2 not twin cast doesn't remove that 50 curse dot)
    remonstrate 15 (deaggro bad in this situation, but so valuable for self healing)

    Having to spend 9/13 spell gems on aggro and spend 100% of time spamming those and 5 aa (14 abilities clicked, 11 of them constantly clicked for aggro) is simply lame.

    Killing 5-10 mobs per minute in a group or whatever, constantly with 3-4+ in camp, I can keep aggro for the most part off anyone but necros (yes allayna, necros, you know, ones that don't FD constantly and do less dps than a melee), beastlords, and meleeing rangers (I am not sure if that was an outlier with someone with aggro procs/weapons, as not an issue with 3 other rangers). I've heard monks are bad, but not grouped with one this expansion, or a long time honestly. Melee dps mercs also problematic. I assumed zerkers were based off last expansion, not that I think he was going all out last night, but wasn't an issue

    But I've watched an SK not have the same aggro as me and easily outaggro me in the same group. Drog said he had to mem another terror to reliably keep aggro off melee merc, so aggro a bigger issue for SK too, but what does that say to you? Says to me, against players, or in general before, he did not have to use everything he had in order to barely keep aggro against the best dps. Whereas that is nothing but what we cast in that situation.

    Not heard any warriors complaining so far about aggro. They certainly had NO problems last year in TBL.

    I said it before in the posts that some of you mouth breathers replied to in your zeal to ding an RoI paladin.

    99% of the time we can keep aggro. But I don't play with the 99%, do I? And even if I was being an arrogant jerk and claiming the best are in my guild and generate the most aggro, it doesn't negate the entire issue. Paladins have to do everything we can to barely keep aggro against the best. Who cares about the other 99%? Any tank can easily keep aggro off of them. A boxed SK can.

    The issue is we click 2.5-5 times as many buttons to do something worse. That isn't fun. Its lame.

    This isn't even a paladin issue. Its an aggro generation issue for some classes. Our aggro feels BETTER than before against most classes. It feels WORSE against other classes. That means that some classes have seen way to much an increase in their aggro this expansion.

    Our aggro abilities do NOT scale well and never have.

    I mean, I'm in a group with toxicsoul, and literally spamming everything, and every second I'm losing 2% aggro or whatever. Taunt back up, starts going down again. I don't care if he's burning. I don't care if he's pumping out million+ dps. I should be able to do my job without asking him to not do his job.

    That said, I'm not the one whining about paladins. Our dps is through the roof right now, especially when in groups pulling 3-4+ mobs at a time so that you're getting riposte slays. Everything is undead, we can invis around like a ranger usually does. We can mitigate just fine (really, all tanks can, because the mobs this expansion are way easier than last year, which is a whole different problem).

    I'm just pointing out the continued reality that there is an imbalance in aggro generation where its harder for us that others, but worse, takes using up way more of our time and resources to manage it.

    But that's fine. Keep pretending you're a godmode tank and so much better than everyone else. I just hope that they beef the raids up again so you can try and come up with another excuse to whine about why we, yet again, beat you and yours.

    Your only shot is if they keep raids so easy even a caveman can do it. Good luck.
    Wulfhere and Ofearl like this.
  20. Ofearl Slayer of all things Stupid

    I’ll agree with you Yep, our agro isnt as good as it could be. Any group I am in, I always worry about a few classes and knowing how a few people play said class. Monks, and Beastlords are the hardest.

    Sometimes it makes me wonder if they could do something different to generate less agro while doing the same dps.
    yepmetoo and Maedhros like this.