Somewhere along the way bards have been stripped of everything that made them a bard. The point of a bard was to buff other people in the group with songs. (yea we have some CC / pulling abilities too but alot of other classes have that now too) Somewhere along the way we lost this special power of our class. Today every single dps class has auras and other abilities to buff others in the group. I guess this is fine but can you at least buff the bard dps at least a little to be close to other dps? I have noticed dps parses comparing different bards in our raid that getting certain classes in the group can double our dps. Having others in the group who are pure dps classes shouldn't buff that amount, it makes bards just like every other dps but alot less damage because our buffs to the group are no more powerful than others.
While a Bard's DPS may need addressing (especially with soloing options like swarm kiting, Dirging, and Vainglorious Shout all getting hit in the face with a hatchet), our Attributed Damage Per Second (ADPS) is respected nearly unanimously by those that I speak with. While there are group makeups that are more optimal for DPS burns, we have the ability to provide benefit to any class in the game, with the versatility to evolve that support as needed.
Bards still have probably the most profound effect on sustained melee DPS (which leads to significant gains on burst DPS), not sure about caster DPS but they're still a solid addition there too. It is absolutely, 100% fine that other classes can provide some level of aDPS alongside Bards, and that those aDPS additions affect Bards' DPS. This is good. Good for raids; good for game; good for Bards. Speaking of Bard DPS, unless it has been changed, Bards should see a bump to their personal DPS in ToV. Though it may require changing your song lineup quite a bit
Well here is one of the logs of a solid burn fight that our 2 best bards who normally we can be in the top 10-20 dps but were both in non-melee groups (neither of us playing sticks and stones which you kinda got to ignore from a dps parse due to only 1 person being able to use it). This same fight we have both been in 10-15 range on dps when we are in a good group. This is just to show how bad our dps is. We should never be below enc, pal, sk just because we don't have other melees in our group. Also note that one bst down there with us was one who died during the fight so that is why he is so low. #1 BER 163.8m | NEC 156.1m | #3 NEC 149.0m .......... #22 ENC 66788k | #23 ENC 64811k | #24 WAR 63258k | #25 BST 62085k | #26 ENC 58923k | #27 PAL 58474k | #28 ENC 56145k | #29 PAL 54770k | #30 SK 50381k | #31 PAL 48621k | #32 PAL 46617k | #33 SK 46023k | #34 BRD 45194k | #35 BRD 40249k
That parse tells me... next to nothing. And, well it's not surprising that your Bards weren't super high if they weren't in groups that boosted their DPS. That would be like putting a Rogue in a tank group and then complaining that they didn't top the parse.
Point is they took what bards did for a group and gave that ability to every class in the game. Back in the early days people had buffs that they could put on every group and now the bard song ability that was restricted to a single group (well few ae songs) was given to every single dps class but they never increased the bard dps. I don't expect to be in the top of the parse but I should at least be able to out dps tanks and encs when I don't have them with me.
I'm so confused by what you're talking about. Bards are still extraordinarily unique. They haven't given Bard songs to anyone. Auras don't count. That's 1-2 (usually minor) buff(s) that some classes get. And, honestly, if you're not out-DPSing at least Pallies, I think you need to look at your own abilities and songs first.
Here is the same fight where our bards were with a melee group to compare their dps to the first log. Just to show how much more damage those auras and disciplines are adding. Honestly bards add less dps to the group then other classes do these days. You can take 9m off the first bard for his using of sticks of stones but that still means his damage done was double because of the other people he had in the group. #1 BER 162.6m | #2 ROG 158.2m | #3 RNG 155.4m .......... #10 MAGE 111.9m | #11 MAGE 109.3m | #12 MAGE 106.1m | #13 BST 102.6m | #14 RNG 97022k | #15 BRD 89838k (sticks and stones) | #16 WIZ 88686k | #17 ENC 74624k | #18 BRD 74542k | #19 BRD 74457k | #20 RNG 72376k
Do you have more information for this? Fight time? Song rotation? Cast counts? Was it a straight burn on a single target? What was that BRD's melee damage % vs spell damage %? How do those percents compare to when they do well on a parse? Did the hard did? Just curious.
While I don't agree with the specifics of the OP's point, I think the best case for this would be Beastlords. They provide a very sizable amount of adps to a melee group from Dissident Fury, but are still able to provide self dps at much more competitive levels than a Bard. The one thing that Bard's have that's unique is that their adps isnt specialized and specific to an archetype the way Ench/Druid is for Casters and Shaman/Beast is for Melee. But they also pay for that with less "burst" and more "sustained" adps effects. I would also agree with you that Bard's should be beating unsupported tanks on parse, so again the OP isnt using the best points/data to support their point, but I do think there is something to saying Bard personal dps should be looked at and in all likelyhood increased to be more competitive.
Bards have the most blue flappy drake illusions out of any class in EQ I believe, that's gotta count for something
The target for these fights was a single mob burn fight. The second one was an older fight so if anything the lower dps parse was better gear on the bards but I don't know the exact lineup of songs that were being played at the time. I was one of the bards in the list and I know I was using the same song lineup for both of those parses but can't say the same for the others.
know what I see in those parses? the top3 changed from "we were in caster groups" BER NEC NEC to "we were in melee groups" BER ROG RNG
Yes it is a dead class let those capable of playing the bard play it. Find your multi bind class and have fun
Bards were in every group so the other classes had no affect of not having bard songs. The other bards in the melee groups on that attempt just aren't good dpsers no matter what group they are in and are always low. But they still play the songs that are helping the others in the group so no dps is ever without bard songs. If you looked at the full parse to compare the less good bards with melee in their group were about even with the bards without melee. Where as in the second parse the bards that were just below us in the first were really low on the chart. And there were 3 bards in the 2nd parse because that 3rd good dps bard wasn't even on the day for the first parse.
I am just confused that the only metric for a class to not be deemed "pointless" is either damage output or conveyed damage output. Bards are ever the Swiss Army Knives of the game, and while I agree that they need a boost in personal DPS I do not find that it is as dire as has been portrayed here, especially since they offer so much to a duo/group/raid/battle of the bands.
