Camp check?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by HoodenShuklak, Oct 12, 2019.

  1. Machen New Member


    I don't think there's ever been a time in 18 years of boxing when I've used my box characters to control what anyone else does in game. I very much believe in letting people play they way they want, live and let live.
  2. Midnitewolf Augur


    Actually I don't wonder why people want to play solo because I actually do understand why. What I tend to not understand is why people play a social game when all they want to do is solo?

    I mean if you have a big issue with peer pressure forcing you to conform to a specific standard of conduct, why would play a game where such a thing is a factor at all?
  3. Machen New Member


    That isn't all we want to do.

    I play the game primarily for raiding. I absolutely love the social aspects of raiding. Especially large scale raids--working together with 40+ people as a team through content that takes careful strategy and solid execution is very enjoyable. You don't get anything like that in single player games.

    What I DON'T like is, when we are not raiding, being unable to accomplish anything to advance my character because I am dependent on other people doing things they don't really want to do to help me, and vice versa. Everyone has stuff they need to get done in game outside of raids. A lot of it is tedious. I don't blame people if they don't want to tag along to camp my shrink wand, or ac aug, or epic drops, or whatever it may be. If someone wants to join me, they are always welcome, but people very rarely do. I usually don't want to tag along to camp stuff like that for other people either. No one's got time to do all that stuff six times over on TLP timelines. Nor do I ever want to sit around LFG for four hours and log off having accomplished nothing and wasting all that time. Nor do I enjoy wasting time in pickup groups with a bunch of players who collectively can't play six toons as well as I can all by myself. Boxing is an efficient way to let me be ready to enjoy the social part of the game that's important to me, aka raiding.
    Dythan likes this.
  4. code-zero Augur

    Some people never get this. Getting the skeletal parrot aug or something isn't likely to attract a any help from guild but you wouldn't expect it too. But you can chat with your friends all night and if it happens that someone else has something they want to do that you can help with is great. But mostly you will be doing things with your box crew by themselves while being social at the same time.

    I got over pickup groups a long time ago and about the only time in the past when I'd do that was doing the Teek daily stuff up till the level 95's weren't worth the hassle
    Machen likes this.
  5. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Tell me more about the parrot aug please.
  6. Machen New Member


    Hundreds of hours of camping/killing stuff with no real benefit other than a really nice aug once you've got all the pieces collected. Subpar xp in all the camps, and no loot to speak of. You definitely do not want to do it for yourself and five of your closest friends.
  7. code-zero Augur

    Jonas Dagmire's Skeletal Parrot
    It's a quest on Thuliasaur Island in The Darkened Sea. It's a fun quest but you have to do the TDS progression. It's also in a fun zone with dinosaurs so it's a blast just to look at all the critters in the zone .

    Of course I enjoy backfilling stuff I missed when it was in era so there is that
    Dahaman and Dythan like this.
  8. CatsPaws No response to your post cause your on ignore

    code-zero likes this.
  9. yerm Augur

    The issue with boxing is finding a middle ground between sitting around incapable of advancing and not ever working with others. This can be especially bad if a certain class/role becomes absent from the pool of people available.

    Everyone appreciates when folks do their tasks and minor grinds self sufficiently. People even get annoyed if a guildmate starts begging for help with basic crap since nobody wants to do that crap. It can backfire though when you hit stuff thats more challenging and not mwrely tedious - do all your tanks box healers? What are those healers you love on raids gonna do outside raids if so? Can the dps get in?

    At some point as painful as it can be it actually is GOOD to have to rely on others. To pug. To lfg. Those plebs who can't or won't box their way through content frequently fill out the raids. Without nonraid social interaction, you end up with a problem seen everywhere throughout eqs history - where did x class (typically non tank non soloer) go? How do we recruit more? How do we find rogues before por and vertigo? Where are the clerics? Who can box a shaman and not fail emotes?
    Machen likes this.
  10. Machen New Member


    This is why I prefer guilds that proactively work together for flagging. It definitely takes a heavy handed approach sometimes to tell the tanks they need to sit their box cleric to get the guild main clerics flagged, but in my experience most boxers in high end guilds understand the need and understand that they will need to run through flagging a second time later on for their box crew. It also really helps when you hit the expansions where you can taskadd extra people in guild to flag them, especially post SoD when a lot of folks are running just three toons + mercs and have plenty of flags to spare.
    Oakenblade likes this.
  11. Dorris New Member

    So my curent guild accepted a new recruit recently who was just come to the end of their 1 month probabation. This recruit raided with us 3-4 times a week and was just getting to the point where they could bid on loot.

    Then a guild member posted screen shot of the recruit not respecting camps many months back and giving it there are no camps in EQ BS as justification. So the guild kicked him out. He got nothing for raiding for a month. I think EQ needs more of this self policing. Yes you can be a jerk but that in turn green lights other people to be a jerk to you.
  12. Midnitewolf Augur


    I am not going to explain this well but your kind of creating the problem you are trying to avoid. Let me try to explain. EQ by design is meant to be a game where people come together to accomplish goals they couldn't do solo. By pushing a solo agenda, players actually damage or even destroy that aspect of the game.

    Instead of people having to come together to accomplish goals, now there are mechanisms that give you a way to bypass this which in turn means there are less people willing to group so more mechanisms are created to bypass the requirement to work together and then there is even less working together until your at the point where it just makes sense to do everything yourself. All of a sudden instead of a game specifically designed to encourage people to play together, you have a game that alienates people who want to work together and that is where we are at with EQ.

    I mean I get it. Working with other people is hard and I have had some really horrible grouping experiences over the years but it is really frustrating that because some people can't be bothered to work together, most of the social aspect of the game, which I think were core to EQ's philosophy, has been stripped away.

    Let me give an alternative scenario. Lets say it was impossible to solo. There were no mercs, no boxing and even the easier of content required a coordinated group of players. Do you think getting those groups would be an issue? Probably not and in general, this was a lot like how classic EQ was. While there were exceptions, most people grouped and a lot more people were willing to help with things because they knew that what goes around comes around. Eventually they would need help and because they helped you, you would help them. When players were unable to be selfish and play by themselves, players tended to not be selfish and in my opinion we had a much stronger community.

    So honestly, I feel the boxer/solo crowd has had a huge negative impact on the game and has created many of the scenarios you claim to wish to avoid and use as the reason you solo. That isn't an attack on you buy the way, it is just offering an alternative perspective. It is also the reason I feel the whole, "Don't tell me how I should enjoy the game" argument falls flat because quite simply, the push for a more solo friendly game, dramatically impacts the social aspects of the game. Also, the second they make it so Raids can be soloed, is the second the social aspects of the game play you claim to enjoy disappear as well because raiding is just grouping on a larger scale.
  13. Machen New Member


    I think you're wrong. It would be an issue. Because most players will quit the game when they find that even with forced grouping, they still sit LFG for two hours a night, and can never convince anyone to go do the content they need to do because everyone would rather take the path of least resistance/fastest XP.

    When the game isn't fun, and you can't get anything done, people quit.
  14. Midnitewolf Augur

    However, Classic Everquest was pretty much exactly as I describe and it topped out at around 350k subscribers I think so apparently at least 350k thought it was fun for quite some time. However I will also counter there are some people, myself included, who feel they can't get anything done for the simple reason that the game mechanisms that encouraged grouping have be relaxed to the point, groups are not commonly available. For us who don't want to box and pay for multiple accounts, we are kind of screwed. I guess at some point for us, the game stops being fun and we quit. Soloer's have basically dictated how we are supposed to have fun in the game by campaigning, successfully too, for mechanisms that encourage solo activity.

    Honestly, in today's day and age, you are likely right about people quitting because they can't solo. For better or worse the newer generations of gamers, those under I would say even maybe up to the age of 40, from the WoW generation, to modern Millenials and Gen Z gamers, are very much focused on instant gratification and having things their way, when and how they want it. Also why shouldn't they be, they grew up with WoW or games based on WoW as the example for how a game should play. Also a game as old as EQ, if it didn't adapt to these individuals way of thinking, probably wouldn't still be around.

    However, just because everyone expects WoW doesn't mean that WoW is better. Having experienced both, required grouping vs solo is best game play, I can honestly say, the required grouping, with all the issues that entails, is more fun that solo in the long run though I don't have a clue how to convince people, already 1000% convinced that I am wrong, that it is indeed the case. However, if you think on it logically, I bet in real life, the most fun and exciting times you had were when you were out with a group of friends participating in some activity or another, not when you were off doing something solo and alone. You might have had a good time doing it alone, but having other people around generally always made it more fun or at the very least more memorable. I bet if people really thought about it, a least 90% of them would agree. That being the case, it kind of shocks me more people don't realize it is the same with any activity, even playing a game.
  15. That0neguy Augur

    Yep soloers ruined the game for you.

    Also your memory if fallible and incorrect.
  16. Machen New Member


    Lol with this . Don't for a moment mistake "I don't want to sit LFG for hours every night" with "I want instant gratification." Everquest is not an instant gratification game no matter how you play it.

    This is entertainment. If it isn't fun and enjoyable, there is no sense in participating in it. Sitting around frustrated because you cannot find a group and cannot do anything without a group is not fun, at least not for me or anyone I know. Maybe it floats your boat. If so, keep doing what you are doing. But don't try to force it on the rest of us, or try to imply that we are WoW kiddies because we aren't like you.