Master Vule lockout duration

What is the intended lockout for this event? Considering it is a 1 loot raid I'd have expected a 3 day lockout (so 1.5 on Selo) but tonight we got a lockout over 3 days, which would be about a week on live. Is this accurate or did something bug out for us?

He is meant for flagging imho not for farming gear. He was OW. They made the instance when phinny was on era. We did a 6x or 4x split. It's doable with minimal force just use some brains.

I'm well aware of Vule's role in flagging (which is why I care about his lockout). I'm aware he used to be open world (and when he was, he didn't have a week respawn). I'm aware that people can split raid it. I'm aware people can do all sorts of things to avoid or circumvent the lockout.

None of that however has any bearing at all on my question: Why does a mob with 1 loot drop and limited raid size (capped at 36) have a lock out longer than any other content? Is it intended, or is it a bug? Because to be consistent it should have a lockout on par with Emoush (3 days)

Emoush is not a bottleneck to progression. Vule is (and intended) to be a bottleneck.

Emoush is the hardest part of DON. Hes basically the boss.

I assume they gave it the same lockout as all the other instances they created for TLP servers which is why it's set to 7.

A 24 man, 1 item, 12 flag instance should not be on a 3 day lockout. Especially on a server that unlocks new expansions every month.

As for the it was "intended that way" or "use your brain"...people have no problem putting them G's on the parse...wasn't meant to be there. But I guess keep nerfing other random things lol.

Man, relax.
My statement about the purpose of the instance was meant to point out that the following assumption could be refuted because it's an event meant for flagging not for farming gear:
A lockout may not be intended because it only drops one item and it is expected that instances that only drop one item have a lower lockout to fulfill consistency.

Latter on, on your next post, you added the fact that old OW Vule had lower respawn time than the Live instance Lockout.

So, lets say, that your expectations of shorter instance lockdown are based on the assertion that OW Vule had a shorter respawn timer than the current instance lock.

That actually makes more sense than basing instance lockdowns on loot quantity. But if we want to look again at consistency: TLP-made-instances are a 6.5d lock. So assuming that Vule is 6.5 (or 3.25 on Selo) makes more sense.

Anyhow, to easy the confusion and the sensation that I may be just trolling, I'll plainly assert that your lockout is correlative to what we had had on the Phinnigel server.

As I understand the design of raids, particularly the flagging structures used, were never about loot specifically, but were always from a standpoint of the pace of progression enabled by the events, their flagging was designed to gate the content so that it became available at a specified rate, no matter how good any one guild was the raid progression had a concrete speed intended by designers.

Master Vule when he was open world had a faster respawn because all of the active guilds on the server needed to kill him to progress and the respawn was what gated the progression of all the guilds on the server at the same time.

On Phinigel the ease with which any single guild's attempt to complete the event could be disrupted or locked out by another guild was felt to not be in keeping with the design & intent of the server (AKA the initial reasoning behind the Agents of Change that were introduced with the server) so the change from open world event with a respawn timer to instanced event with a lockout there was set to allow individual guild's progression at a pace the developers were happy with.

Therefore Master Vule respawn & lockout rates had little to nothing to do with any available loot from them, only progression, Zipe's point about the lockout timer's being comparable is correct.

By all means argue for a faster unlock, but doing so from a loot availability perspective is a bad mistake, your primary justification should be progression speed.

The reason I mention the loot count is because typically Raid Size - Loot Drop - Lockout go hand in hand when they balance things.

54 man - 3 loots - 5 days (anguish, sendaii, draygun, etc...)
36/42 man - 2 loots - 4 days (volkara, guardians of the sands, council of nine, etc...)
24 man - 1 loot - 3 days (emoush, circle of drakes, goblin dojo, etc)

(the exception being Bloodeye because it was originally a 24 man target, they scaled it up to a 54 man target but forgot to increase the loot drops from 1 to 3).

Flags were then scaled based on that, such as Emoush and Dojo dropping 6 flags while Volkara and Sands drop 9.

This generally also carries over for the open world targets too. Grokui in Stoneroot for example has a 4 drop loot table (like vule), drops one per kill (like vule), and has a 3 day respawn (like vule did).

When they added the AoC instances with a 7 day lockout as an addition to open world targets, that makes sense as you trade replay time for on-demand availability. But Vule isn't an AoC, it is a change across all servers (at least from what I've read, I haven't run out there on Rathe to see if static Vule pops). So to me, it feels like the lockout timer is a bug to be that long.

This sums it up quite nicely. And from what I remember has always been the norm. The less people you can bring, the less loot, the less lockout timer/respawn.

From a flagging standpoint where they scale based on lockout it seems like the timer in your example would be correct. Emoush flags 6 people with a three day lockout. Vule flags 12 with a 6 day lockout. Double the flags for double the lockout. Though I’d agree the loot could be increased.

The big difference between comparing Vule to things like Emoush is that they are drastically different roadblocks for progression. You only need to do Emoush once to get your entire raid to Vish, which essentially means he is for personal progression. Vule on the other hand must be killed 3-5 times to get your raid force in. It acts like others have said as a natural pace setter for progression through DoDH. The exact same way the blockers and banes do in Demi-plane.

i mean he was 12 dp flags per spawn cycle, for an entire server, for like... a decade? we get it dramatically faster on selo, even with a lockout, than people got it on live - which is how it was actually intended. if it's not fast enough for you, do 12-man vule's instead of 24-man.

Master Vule is a full 7 day lockout, why they did that, I have no idea.

I remember it being more than other AoCs when they added it on Phinny.

Selo gets half lockout times? That would make it 3.5 days for you. So to answer your question, yes, that's the intended lockout.

This one's gonna be a grats Selo tlp.

Yes, absolutely, that's the intended lockout because every lockout is halved. Vule however is the first one that actually limits flagging speed, anguish for example, a full raid can be flagged with one run through trials. But the speed of selo should be considered and this specific lockout reviewed, as selo expansion unlock speed runs circles around this lockout.

Also, it is not and is not intended to be a 12 man raid, thus, that some might be able to 12 man isn't relevant, its intended size of force is what should be considered.

So do it as 24 x2 each lockout and shocker you have 48 people flagged in a week on Selo.....
If you want to compare it back to live. That would be equivalent to 1.5 months into a 6 month long xpac. Seems pretty reasonable.

Or just do it in 12 man instances and everyone is flagged immediately... It is doable.

On Phinigel lots of guilds ran it with 12 mains who needed the flag + a variety of supporting Alts (which had been flagged up to that point for the purpose), that way they minimised how many runs were needed to flag their guild mains though it did necessitate a considerable amount of planning ahead & extra work on levelling/gearing/flagging up enough of the support alts we used.

1st run I played my main to dps Vule while others whose mains were on a later scheduled run played alts to cover the gargoyle/clicking lever mechanic.
2nd & 3rd run I played two of my alts I had flagged up to there & did the click mechanics with them.

I don't think we used more than 18 players on any run & overall the change to a instanced event was a huge deal & made progression a whole ton more enjoyable.