Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities

Stasis is only for when you failed at pulling or the extremely rare time when you can't think of a better option.

Sometimes I like to use it to make the pull stop to pick an angle based on how things spilled out in tight quarters, or whether something stopped longer to cast a spell at me. Or cut the effect of having a cast time when locking a given group in two steps. It's an instant ability.

Raids are all about time.
A complete or a partial wipe, or anything that causes a reset. Has the same cost of time sans the time it takes to get a rezzer back in zone to safely Rez those that died. A single person or group of people’s fade, gate, port, stein whatever doesn’t save a raid any time, outside what it would take to run a rezzer back. So at most 1-2min and some of that time is spent with people that did fade screwing around and not letting the event reset properly.

For a raid it’s better time management to take your death and await a Rez.
Even if you do get out, you’re still going to wait on those that didn’t , to med rebuff etc...

I’m also still a bit offended that Druids aren’t put into the same tier as rangers at least.

Druids often pulled for groups in all eras.

In classic wolf form, Harmony which was unresistable, AE and worked on everything, Snare, Root. Eventually gaining things like Egress, Instant Camo, Nearly Instant AA Entrap, Vinelash, Paralytic Spores/Spray, Wall of Wind, etc. They make for very good pullers for most content unless it’s all immune to snare/root/harmony.

Seriously, some of you would that the fruit is too bitter in the Garden of Eden.

Fade *at all* is a bonus for all classes. Someone complaining their WARRIOR can't fade off aggro? Are you serious? Whining little ..... You're a freaking warrior, man up and kill or be killed.

No one should have a fade imo. FD should be the only "escape death" ability (or gate/port). The fact that everyone has been so damned spoiled is apparent.
/whining_voice "My (insert non-FD class here) can't pull whatever it wants and survive if I screw up or it goes bad. Death shouldn't ever be something I experience!"

DBG, normally I think you do some stupid stuff, with frequency. But this isn't one of them. The "balance" that so many people like to reference is the fact that non-FD classes can escape AT ALL

So would it be unreasonable with this change to make the ability instant cast? Several classes have to be so far away from the mob to work, this often requires needing to run a distance, stop and then hit their fade ability. The problem is often times the server still thinks the player is moving causing the fade ability to fail.

Rethinking the mana / End cost would also be a good thing, its rather steep and still has not been explained if it will be a % based cost or fixed 20% value of the players total pool. Maybe a quick edit to the original post clarifying this part would be good.

Would Daybreak simply consider a longer reuse timer vs whats currently being proposed to the players to achieve the same outcome?

If my memory servers me correctly the first class that could evade agro was rogue not an FD class. Never got on playing a monk so cannot recall the exact level monks got FD.

Evac in its original form didn't reload the zone, but it turned out that was the only way they could clear all agro at the time. It is about time they didn't leave group members behind!

Not sure at what level bards got fade either, but they aren't a FD class either.

Actually, using reuse time alone as the resource cost is easier.

If they would remove the out of combat restriction to the hiatus/breather line of combat abilities I could care less what they do to fade abilities. In fact I haven’t hardly used it since the first round of nerfs that made it impossible to escape combat from raid mobs to do just that.

This change will not effect me or my play style, because it will remain a button I won’t use. I lose nothing and gain nothing from this change.

I am not saying I wouldn’t like to gain something if the devs are going to put forth the effort though

So much this. I eluded to it in a previous post. Casters can hit their mana regaining abilities while in combat, why are melee/hybrids restricted in their ability to regain endurance to out of combat only?

Exactly.

For my warrior, this is how the ability has panned out for me. I never use it because I can't use it to use breather. Costing me 20% endurance means I'll continue to not use it because it nullifies my primary purpose.

For my warrior this will really only serve a purpose to facilitate surviving a false start on a raid or event or similar situations. If that is the only intended purpose then I can see the intent of the limits. It is saving me from having to run back and rezz for the cost of 20% mana or endurance.

The thing is I want to use it in combat to adjust my agro standing. As a warrior mostly for breather, but my melee and casters want it to drop rampage, clear agro off uncontrolled adds, to use special abilities that require I am off agro etc. This change doesn't help me in most of the situations where it is truly helpful for me to try to use it outside of avoiding deaths during a wipe.

As bad as this sounds, each class does not need their own gimmicky version of this fade ability. Just give them all a generic name and stick it under archtype (or even general). Let everyone have the same version. Save on AA space and consolidate. If you were a class with something special outside of the farmed out version, congrats on getting a new terrible fade to add to the arsenal.

I am sure ranger would like to be rid of the cast time and distance thing, shaman and enchanters may like or miss their stun inclusion. I only sometimes liked it but could remove it if I wanted which was fine.

I don't see a reason for some classes to get a different tier ability other than the original FD, Escape, and Fading Memories. Chanters with their targeted fade, and pet classes with their pet fades may need additional thought but just letting them keep their previous versions.

I would also accept this as a toggle ability. Turned ON-full fade and resource cost. Turned OFF, drop to 1 agro without the resource cost. Change the breather line to allow in combat usage.

I honestly really dislike the resource costs across the board. I find it is really hurtful to how players typically use the abilities. Increase the time if needed, but the resource costs really punishes some classes much more than others.

So, exactly how is this supposed to be helpful? Seriously, if you're going to fix something, then fix it, don't screw it up even more.

I didn't say it would remove the issue altogether. Like you said for someone want to get to a spot with out working for it they could train and fade.

What it will do is prevent those working on a quest from training to x mob fading, kill one mob then train back for turn in and repeating it for each step of the task. The quest are not meant to work that way but in a number of ways that what it become a rush to do X step and avoid everything else.

Can people still find ways around it? Yes. will people still come up with new ways to get around X mechanic? Yes

But just because people can and will don't mean that they shouldn't fix the issue. and the issue as they said is that Fade is OP and needs to be addressed. I agree with them. Are other skills OP and should be addressed as well? Yes but this is the one that was put on the table for us to talk about and so that what I done.

I agree I think the mana/end cost should be removed.

I disagree that it the #1 reason for the skill. When the skill was added to most all the classes it was to address aggro issues. Not so people could refill mana/end. yes that is how some use it today but it was not the reason for it.

"The first of these abilities was implemented in Shadows of Luclin with the intent of letting Rogues escape a bad situation and was balanced by having a relatively long reuse time. The team considers the ability to escape death a very powerful asset."

Hit fade doesn't put you into ooc regen on raids. On raids if you hit the mob and go opps i should med then you still have a 5 min timer. so your going to sit out on a raid for 5 min waiting on ooc regen and then another 3-4 min of sitting to get mana ? If your going to spend 8+ min sitting on the raid you better off porting to the guild hall and using the pool there to fill your mana/end faster.

If your talking about doing this in group content then killing one mob and then medding not going to be that big of deal that you would need to fade to med.

Fade was made so that as your burning if your getting near the top of the aggro meter you can fade to make sure you don't pull aggro and flip the mob. to this day I still know people that don't use it as it was meant to be and mobs flipping on raid because some one care more about their parse then fading is all around BS.

"The intent of letting Rogues escape a bad situation and was balanced by having a relatively long reuse time."

"It is for these reasons that all classes' escape abilities will now have a 100% chance to succeed on targets up to 5 levels higher than the caster."

So what your saying is your often fighting mobs that are 6+ levels above you ? Yellow mobs are 1-3 level so most trash on raids would still be in the under 5 level range.

Fade is on the "top" priority list or they would not be addressing it. It may not be on your list but it is on DBG list.

Oh, I get it. DBG Is trying to make game play so annoying and frustrating that people stop playing.

if the changes to fade are the reason for people to quit playing... then they really don't know what they are doing with their character...... just because everyone has become so accustomed to using it as a trick to get to camps (train/fade/setup camp), or non "pulling class" using it to split pulls every few mins when that was never the intent.. well.. get over it... everyone made it through original EQ through whichever expansion their class got fade without it...

i think the change is just fine... aside from the mana/endurance cost for the non pulling classes... that's a bit overkill.

as far as using fade to drop aggro so you dont steal the mob from a tank... you can watch your aggro and where you compare to the tank... if you need to back off for 2-3 sec so the tank can jump up some on aggro so be it... or maybe your tank needs to work on their aggro generation and not just auto attack while spamming taunt

who uses auto-attack?


Inside Joke

Well, I think that is probably intentional. They want people to manage their hate generation, any situation where some capability is boundless is going to present balance issues when it comes to event design or even general gameplay where some sort of personal management is the objective.

These abilities are supposed to be there for the character to escape a bad situation, not so that they can generate unlimited amounts of hate during an encounter or otherwise get out of combat for some advantageous purpose. With that in mind it makes sense for them to make the changes they are proposing.

I don't have an issue with that. The issue as far as I am concerned is that some raids put you into combat the moment you are rezzed, so that your end recovery tools are for the most part extremely limited. From a warriors point of view, our ability to effectively tank depends strongly on having end, and if you are rezzed into a combat state, your role capability is severely limited.

In contrast to my post on page 4 or 5 thereabouts... I have a much simpler solution for everyone that doesn't involve retooling various fades, de-aggro's mana/end cost and everything.... you guys are gonna love this....
wait for it... wait for it......

Reduce all damage all mobs do in any form by 20%. (Get rid of unresistable charm mobs can cast while you are at it!)

Boom, done!

No more need for a fade unless you pull the entire zone, and you can handle a couple extra mobs on a bad pull, turn and fight mobs within 1-3 levels of you that you accidentally aggro, and de rail trains that jackarses pull on you.

Best part of all, it still uses the extra mana/end that they want to use, just through natural consequences!

Now if we could get the EXP boosted by like 50% so it doesn't take forever to do anything.....

There you have it....

(Proceed to flame, throw salt, etc.... but it IS a valid suggestion, and would put this whole fade revamp to bed, and make FAR less work for the dev and coding teams! You can exclude raid zone mobs if you want, but meh.... they are a little too OP too.)

As a wizzy A Hole in Space will lose its place on my hot bar and never get used, I have other agro reduction abilities which will replace it, not as good as they have been neglected since TBM, but with a shorter reuse they will become my bread and butter for controling my agro, I already keep a second as a back up for AHIS failing. Concussion will also be making a reapearance back on my spell bar.

They can delete Wizzy fade as far as I'm concerned if they go ahead with these changes.