Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Dzarn, Sep 30, 2019.

  1. Jhenna_BB Proudly Prestigious Pointed Purveyor of Pincusions

    The why has been pretty transparent all along. The Devs regret giving anyone that's not an Enc or Bard fade or a Monk, SK or Necro a "feign death". Whatever the wish is for development on the Devs part is being in some way undone to so many opportunities for get out of jail free cards. We've all had these abilities for a decade now. They don't want to just take them away (be grateful) they want to better balance them for content going forward. This is certainly a re-balancing act with both Live and TLP in mind. It's actually good for the game the Devs consider both modes of play. I've been pretty outspoken in the past about "TLP poison" but this is clearly a bit different. The day the Devs no longer view balance as a thing is the day EQ becomes vaporware. Some of it might be a little by accident but wouldn't it be universally viewed that balance across classes is maybe better now than it ever has been? Sure, a few classes could use a buff or two but no class is so under-powered at their function that they are not really wanted at the moment. I'm sure more of that then people would admit is due to work the Devs have done to get it there. They deserve credit for this - the numbers are so inflated all around in EQ it can't be easy to balance things the way they intend. I'll point out the original Druid and Shaman DoT revamps for instance. I don't envy the task at all of figuring out numbers in today's game when it comes to adding to player power and/or utility.
    Renotaki, PCSS and Brohg like this.
  2. Stephen51 Augur

    I'd like to add my opinion and say I think the change is too detrimental to the player.

    Yes the % chance of success is higher, yes the level of mobs you can escape from has increased from +3 levels to +5 levels, but the lockout for these abilities has increased greatly, and in most cases now incurs 20% mana cost.

    This is harder to take as the abilities have been in game for quite some time and had become established with the player population.

    I can understand that in some cases, such as mine (Paladin) that the increased lockout is more in keeping with the class in that they are not a pulling class, however other classes I think it does not sit so well with (Druid, Enchanter).The mana cost to classes however is dreadful across the board, and may cause more disjointed gameplay.
    Allayna and PCSS like this.
  3. Funky Augur

    if they took away the 20% endurance/mana (class depending) requirement away... i wouldn't see anything wrong with the fade change.
    Allayna likes this.
  4. Oakenblade Former ForumQuest Champion


    ForumQuest is a way of life. Not everyone has what it takes to do #GodsWork
    Belexes and Jhenna_BB like this.
  5. Dewey Augur


    I feel dummer for reading your post sir. Not only am I dummer for reading it Oak, I am dummer yet for replying to it.

    Your post reminds me of that guy who in a meeting at work who doesn't listen to questions/input from other team members.
  6. Boze TLP complaint factory

    I'd hope they'd consider more of their community than that dead on arrival server.
  7. Oakenblade Former ForumQuest Champion

    Yet here we are.

    Excessive salt can be hazardous to your overall health and well-being.
  8. Natal Augur



    Because there is no one else to pull and in that situation it is best for the tank to do it?

    Precision actually works well, especially when you don't have clear los.
    PCSS likes this.
  9. Natal Augur



    That is because raid mobs are too high level as things stand.

    But, depending on how they implement the end requirement (20% total end or 20% available end) it might make it impractical to use for that purpose anyway. If you are willing to live with the long lockout (and on some raids you go into combat mode immediately on a rez) then seventh wind will give you a shot at getting back in shape.
  10. Natal Augur



    And when people are 115? ;)

    GMM group stuff is not raid level. Raid level gear is ~8.5k HEM, about 2k more than GMM.

    Melee can use their wind spells to regain end as well, it just has a much longer timer than hiatus/breather (which are more for getting end after a rez).

    Anyway, there isn't usually a reason to fade in a raid other than to dump hate in order to avoid hate management.
  11. Natal Augur

    Except that for warriors at least, the fade does not work if you are close and in los. So it is not used as commonly as it used to be before the earlier changes. In most cases it is virtually useless for the purposes you are describing.
  12. Skunkhaze New Member

    I don't feel that 20% endurance is a very fair trade off considering , I for 1 , 9/10 only use fade after a rez mid raid to rest, how is anyone supposed to get a rest off mid event if a chance at a fade is gonna be 20% of something you don't have because you now cant use the rest ability to gain tha endurance required.. this needs to be rethought out and considered before putting these changes live please. thank you )
    PCSS likes this.
  13. Dewey Augur

    There has not been 1 positive post from anyone stating reasons these changes "need" to be changed. I challenge 1 person that says, much needed change or thank you. I challenge you to actually contribute to the discussion and say why it needs changed.

    This is a 12 page thread of please don't do this. It reminds me of the star wars change. Remember that game? When the dev's changed the way skill tree's worked. No one wanted it and it killed the game.

    We now have mercs. A full group is 3 players and 3 mercs. Now to force one of those players to be a puller, that just reduces who you can do what with. If you go this route you need to introduce a pulling merc or a enchanter merc to make up for the change.

    Is it better when people group? Sure... However; your messing with box crews that were designed around changes made years ago. Full characters that will have to be rerolled and recreated. The owners of those characters might just walk away. It's not worth it. Nothing is gained by the change.

    2% endurance is a ridiculous requirement. 5 levels on escape has always been stupid and ridiculous and needs removed. It wasn't there with the origins of escape.

    I am not posting this because I want to be a troll. I am posting because this change means a lot to me, and I will go to church and pray to God for them to not happen. I am told that I take this too serious. I do admit to taking EQ too seriously. I am sorry for loving the game. This change is not good for the game. This change does nothing.

    If it is a TLP issue, then the fix is easy. Give community guides the ability to suspend players for training. Enough is enough with these nerfs. Nerfs to charm, memblur, so many nerfs... When all you need to do is add moderators. You have people that would moderate for FREE. Use them and end this issue that way.

    A free moderator would fix the issue. It would stop the trains. Where as these nerfs do nothing but hurt the game; because the changes are not good or wanted.
    PCSS likes this.
  14. Mazame Augur

    The reason it is a small change for some and not for others is simple. People that have the skill to play their character doesn't need this ability to play well. What the Fade abilities has done is made people sloppy. Rather then taking the time to clear out a camp or move to a spot in a zone people just train and fade. It is not how the game was meant to be played and the way people have abused it is the reason the chance needs to be made. I not saying everyone abused it but enough people do that it become an issue.

    They are not removing the skill all together they are simply making it so that it not able to be used as often.

    Lets look at burns for a min many classes have 10-15 min burns and we call those our quick burn. we then have longer burns that are 20+ min

    Your making it sound like the fade ability because of the timer will be junk so does that mean your burns are all junk? After all many burns are 10+ min. What they are saying is like our Burns Fade skill is Very powerful and should be limited.

    I think putting the timer and a very high mana cost is over kill but having the timer to me brings the skill in line with other skills of power.

    For those classes that had been given the skill to use as a pulling class the timer is shorter but again the changes to me I feel are needed to keep them from being abused.
    PCSS likes this.
  15. Mazame Augur


    They need to have one or the other.

    Reuse timers limits how often the skill can be used. This is what I feel would be the best change to keep the skill power in balance.

    Mana/End cost is too high = This would be a way to control the number of time you could use it but let the player use it more often in times of need if they are able to pay the cost. To me this would hurt the skill more then it would help. the times where your going to need it back to back are rare. The down side to this is if you need it and your low on mana/ end then you can't use it.

    I would rather see the timers add and no mana / end cost so that you can use it when you need it but then have to wait for it to be back up again.
  16. Dewey Augur

    The change won't change this. You'll be full mana when you zone in and the 10 minute or 15 minute timer will still be there. This will still occur. For rogues they will still drag corpses and rez with rez stick or merc. For clerics they will still DA to the sport and hope for Totd and camp. There is nothing you can do to this game to make it so one has a "clear to a spot" There are way more mechanics that can be used. You say sloppy, I say more efficient. especially when now adays many people just play when they can. The people who don't have time to raid, also don't have time to do a 3 hour clear to get to said camp.

    No they are adding an endurance/mana cost. Which totally removes the number 1 reason for it. They are also leaving in the level cap so that you can't use it on raids.

    The most useful feature of fade is when your low on mana and you accidently hit the mob. Then your like oh I should med. Hit the fade and go into ooc regin faster. Fade isn't about agro management it's about mana/endurance management. Adding a cost to it removes the reason to have it.

    [/quote]
    Lets look at burns for a min many classes have 10-15 min burns and we call those our quick burn. we then have longer burns that are 20+ min

    Your making it sound like the fade ability because of the timer will be junk so does that mean your burns are all junk? After all many burns are 10+ min. What they are saying is like our Burns Fade skill is Very powerful and should be limited.[/quote]

    As a rogue if they gave me back my original escape of 100% always work insta cast and no level restriction. I would perfer that over a 90 second timer. As it has more uses. Right now the level restriction and the endurance drain is horrible and needs stopped.

    Thank you for agreeing with the majority of the players.


    I can give you a lot of other abilities that get more abused. Fade is not on the "top" priority list in any means. People that train others don't care if that character dies. Remove all the abilities and you'll still have a character running at others and then just dying in front of them.
  17. Leric New Member

    We've reevaluated how we want to limit the power of these abilities and will be making a number of changes that we consider an overall improvement for most classes. See the following excerpt from next month's update notes.

    Ranger - Cover Tracks - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%). Removed ranks 4-15 and adjusted the hastening so that this ability has a 10 minute reuse by rank 3 at level 85 (up from 3 minutes at level 100). This ability now consumes 20% of your mana to activate.

    NO, this is not an improvement. Not even close.

    Most common use of covered tracks for a raiding ranger is during a cheetah burn while using bonecrawler. You have made the aggro so ridiculous that I can out aggro any class if I want to with just that spell alone. The irony of cheetah burn is that a ranger can go from 100% mana to 0% in less than the 120 charges/2min in cheetah. So now we have to set aside another 20% of our mana to fade and if we do not have 20% mana, then the ability is 100% useless. You may as well just remove Covered Tracks because I would rather tank the mob than lose 20% of my mana (if I even have it to spare) which is a huge part of my raid DPS.

    Added to that it is up from 3 minutes to 10 minutes. Complete nerf, but not really an issue with the 20% mana cost. You understand that unlike almost every other mana class, ranger has no ability to quickly recover mana? Probably not.

    The 90% to 100% is a complete joke. How about you leave it the same as it currently is and reduce the success rate to 50% instead.

    Going to be a lot of fun ping pong going around because I won't be surrendering 20% of my mana for it. I wont even do it for 2%. It will come of my hotbar. Effectively the rangers will be tanking more (I am sure my guild mates will love to know that), so how about you improve ranger tanking ability! =p
    05KRYSTI and Yinla like this.
  18. Lianeb Augur

    Not that i am agreeing with the changes but.....
    Bard fade is going from what 4 or 6% currently to 2
    Beast are getting one that they never had though the cost is 2%

    Those two seem to benefit in a positive way.
  19. Belexes ForumQuester

    Here is a positive post.

    Maybe this change will teach people how to pull again. Maybe it will teach them how to manage aggro again.

    I will state again, if these changes happen, I will barely notice. If I can barely notice, so you can you all cause I suck at this game. :)

    Less successful and increased timers, that is the way to go in my opinion.
  20. Belexes ForumQuester

    I have never stole aggro from a decent tank while burning and using cheetah. Maybe a pet class, but not a real tank that knows how to tank.

    I am not for the 20% on a pulling class like a ranger though, even if I never use it pulling.
    Tarvas likes this.