Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities

Discussion in 'News and Announcements' started by Dzarn, Sep 30, 2019.

  1. Senu Journeyman

    25% endurance is too high.
    PCSS likes this.
  2. melemayhem Journeyman

    i think the endurance cost is going hurt? and why is it percentage based so the better the gear the worse it is doesn't make sense. I also dont get why they kept messing with things no one cares about, change from group vis to just one invis, previous changes to the fade invis, potion belt, and lots of other things that no one is asking for instead of using developers to do stuff players would actually like ie, pathing issues and maybe an expansion with actual new content rather that just rehashing zones numerous times.
    PCSS likes this.
  3. RageShield New Member

    I have been playing from almost the beginning. You know if this is my first post you know you messed up.. Any chance of doing the following below.

    Example you could have aa adjustments to them? or progression tied to them to reduce them to "some" degree? rather then tweak them your selves give the player some ability to adjust them? An option is tie them into power supplies and as long as it has power and you have one equipped the max will be cut in half. 15 min to 7 and 20% to 10% and removes activation failure if mana is below 10 or 20%.,. Personally I look at this 3 ways. Business, Player/Customer and a Developer. What you stated most likely the change already exists meaning the programming. Adding aa's to reduce wouldn't take that much more programming. Or using the power supply. "IF" power supply is equipped "and" it has power deduce the following counters by "X". This may take a little more

    You could also start with half of the restrictions which would be very minor tweak since you already have the programming / adjustments done its just a matter of counters or variables

    These are just suggestions. But I would rather people be able to drop Argo then pull something over me.
    Also if you put this full programming in affect there should be logic "IF" mana is below 20% mana goes to "0" but it will still at least give you 1 final chance to Drop Argo even if you are below 20%. The ability should still activate as long as mana isn't actually 0. as long as you have .1 point.
    PCSS likes this.
  4. Bigstomp Augur

    Will these abilities now drop you off a raid mobs aggro list or is it 20% mana just to not be the current rampage target?
    PCSS, RPoo and Verily Tjark like this.
  5. warador New Member

    so this last expansion you gave shaman exactly zero class aa and now you are changing one we have spent a ton of aa on maxing ranks and hastening so as to be almost worthless wtg daybreak
  6. Montag Augur

    Please reduce the 12% mana cost for bards on Agnarr.

    For live please remove the mana / end cost for the 15 min and 10 min classes.

    And honestly the reuse times seem excessive at this point in the game we need to make things work with the players we have not worry about too many people being able to pull.
    PCSS likes this.
  7. Lianeb Augur

    +5.....TBL raid mobs are 117
    It's another worthless ability crippled by level ranges event designers Choose, verse AA spell designers.
    See unyielding for an example.
    PCSS, Xeladom, Allayna and 1 other person like this.
  8. AcemoneyFV Augur

    Thanks Daybreak! You fulfilled all of our wishes!
  9. roth Augur

    I really do not understand these changes.

    There is no justification for the dramatic increase in reuse timer and in resource cost for these abilities. ESPECIALLY not after all of the hastening AA’s associated with them.

    Raidloot.com ... check it out :
    Cover Tracks starts out at a 15 minute reuse. Its been hastened over the years down to 3 minutes (at rank 15).
    Self Preservation starts out at 15 minutes (rank 1) and gets hastened down to 6 minutes (max rank).

    The others are similar.

    I get that you want to make the fades ‘more important’ and ‘more impactful’, truly I do. But as a poster elsewhere in this thread pointed out, this is regression, not progression. That 11% increase in effectiveness does not warrant 2.5-5 times the reuse timer, and a manaburn cost.

    What I see happening is this goes live. And over the next five years, we get Hastening AA’s to bring them back down to where they are now, only at 100% instead of 90%. This is a waste of developer time and effort. Fix broken stuff, give us more content to pay for with each expansion. Stop nerfing for the sake of nerfing. At least the riposte nerf had a (barely percieved) technical reason behind it. This ... this nerf just seems arbitrary. No technical reason behind it, just a whim of a developer (or development staff). If you really want us to ahve a 100% effective fade ability .. add in 10 ranks of 200 AA/rank on top of the fade abilities, that increase the odds of success an additional 1% per rank. 2000 AA’s just to bring them to 100% effectiveness. That’s cost enough, isn’t it?
    Chatoyan, Xeladom and Skuz like this.
  10. Jordis Augur


    One of the things that has not shown up or apparently been taken into consideration by the developers who have lumped enchanters in with shamans for their 'fade" is that the enchanter role is aggro management, not just for themselves (at least not for the grouping and raiding enchanter), damage mitigation, and ADPS. We've been told that was the reason for some of the changes to "encourage" us as a class to focus on various aspects of raiding and grouping and not so much on DPS. I rarely use stasis except in a group or on a raid when things go wrong...and not just for myself. We apparently have the ONLY fade that can be cast on another raider or group member. The tank dies and the mob starts running amok killing tanks and clerics, hit a cleric or healer with Friendly Stasis and thrown the Phantasmal pet on the mob to pet tank it so that real tank can grab it. In several of the current, and last expansion raids enchanters are mezing, charming, stunning and debuffing, all of which attract aggo. I use Self Stasis then to limit the amount of healing that is needed and avoid having a healer get aggro. I cast it, click it off and keep mezing, charming, stunning or whatever else needs to be done.

    We do not need Stasis to pull, we have other abilities to do that and we can work effectively with other classes for controlled pulling. It is not just a get out of trouble fast AA, in the current content alone it's a vital part of the mechanics for our class. The extended target is questionable given the importance of our role in aggro management, but the percentage thing has not been thought out in terms of class balancing in raids and groups.
    PCSS and Skuz like this.
  11. Lisard Silly

    cool story guys


    seems like a waste of "limited dev time and resources" to mess with this...yet again.

    the community has give you an Olympic sized swimming pool of things you coulda better spent tinkering with.
  12. Inga Elder

    Please change the mana/endurance resource cost to the mana/endurance reduction effect.
    In other words, please make it possible to use when mana/endurance is lower than the cost and consume all remaining points instead. 'In a dire situation', the player's resource is often low and these abilities 'should work' in such situation if the cost and reuse times are very high.
    In addition to it, please consider to add guaranteed invisibility and instant casting time.

    At level 85 during the Underfoot expansion, these cost and reuse times may be fine, but I feel they are a bit too high for higher levels.
    How about adding new ranks for cost and/or timer in the upcoming new expansion, at lower than 115 level? It will be beneficial for both of DBG and players.
    PCSS likes this.
  13. code-zero Augur

    As a Bard who played when fade cost 900 mana which was about 20% of the typical bards mana pool I've got little sympathy for those complaining about the revised cost. Do a /testcopy and see what it's like but really if this thread shows anything it's that people have been abusing the 2015 changes. An increase of +5 levels and a 100% chance of success in exchange for a longer reuse time and endurance/mana cost is a huge improvement on the current model IF you weren't abusing it

    As for those who say that pulling isn't a thing and hasn't been for a decade I suggest that you reread the OP here where Dzarn stated that the devs considered it to be an important part of the game. Look for pulling to become important in the next expansion
  14. Wildjester New Member

    I can't even comment because this is so lame that I'm pretty sure a bunch of idiotic wow players have taken over development for our game.... ######DayBrokeEQBecauseTheyPlayWorld'o'LameCraftandFortknnnnnniiiiiggggiiiitttt :cool:

    How about this one, "DEET-DEE-DEE-DEYBROKEIT" Carlos Mencia for the win!
    PCSS likes this.
  15. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    It’s pretty clear that they’re dead set on these abilities siphoning percentages of mana or endurance so that they don’t fall into the trap they fell into with bard Fade.

    When it was released in PoP bards had maybe 5000 mana and almost none of them had 15 FT. When it got nerfed in 2015, bards had 100k+ mana and mana Regen was up in the 100~ region. This was part of the catalyst for the original change, seeing how easily bards could fade everything for basically no cost.

    They want to do a percentage of mana or endurance to ensure that the value on a timeless ability like fade that will always be a scaling resource drain.

    I however agree with most other posters, 20% is too high. It made sense in PoP when it was the only ability of its kind and it was used extremely sparingly. I pulled for my guild on the Mac server with a bard before it was shut down and on PoFire or PoWater clears we would kill more raid mobs than trash mobs by selectively pulling with a bard and if you knew what you were doing you only needed to fade once every pull to isolate a single raid mob.

    Now however Fade is commonly used among all classes to prevent training and drop accidental aggro while running through zones. It’s occasionally used for pulling but I don’t think that’s a core function on it any longer for most classes.
    PCSS likes this.
  16. Allayna Augur

    As Lianeb commented. There is 1 raid event in the current expansion that any of these "new" (read: nerfed) abilities will work on and that is the smoke raid. Every single other event has 117 level mobs.

    In regards to the "response" from Dzarn:

    One could get the impression with the raid level group gear from TBL/GMM and from the disparity in mana/end cost with these changes that you are attempting to eliminate the raid game altogether.

    Flusterbolt/Blusterbolt - Ranger
    Beam of Slumber/Blanket of Forgetfulness or Beguiler's Banishment - Enchanter
    Rigor Mortis/Death Peace/Terminal Breath - Shadowknight
    Spirit of Urgency - Shaman
    Smokescreen - Rogue

    My point is "Fade" getting nerfed just means no one will use it, once again, development time was wasted on an unnecessary and irrelevant change, rather than there being discussion with those that actually play the game and play it well.

    It won't drop aggro from raid mechanics/mobs, so pointless from the breather/hiatus aspect, interesting that casters don't have that restriction on requiring to be out of combat to hit their mana regaining abilities but melee and hybrids are....

    In the group game it won't be used because the above abilities are superior and won't have the massive detriment involved.

    - smh

    EDIT: removed the pet complaint as it was a misread.
    PCSS and Teylana like this.
  17. Imukai Augur

    I don't think you read what you quoted. The pet fades all NPCs regardless of level. It said it was previously (read: currently) capped at +3 levels.
    PCSS likes this.
  18. Ofearl Slayer of all things Stupid

    We all need to remember, this isn't intended or end game players, it's for TLP.. it's always TLP.
  19. Allayna Augur

    I did read the from as a "to" as in up to 3 levels. That was my mistake. So I'll concede that the devs threw the pet classes a bone.
  20. Tarvas Redwall of Coirnav, now Drinal

    Shouldn't expert level players be able to manage their hate and be able to deal with "oh crap" moments by doing more than hitting a single button to drop them from the top to the bottom of the hate list? If a expert level player has to consistently use escape to drop themselves to the bottom of the agro list then one must assume that they are not actually expert level players. Expert level players will adapt to this in no time I suspect.
    PCSS likes this.