Is it time to reexamine EXP rates on Phinigel?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by McJumps, Sep 21, 2019.

  1. Kujoe Lorekeeper

    As someone who thought about coming back to Phinny, and is currently 85, there is certainly a barrier to entry when I have a decent amount of levels (and more to come in the next expac), an absolute ton of AA, flagging/keying, and gear before me. If i cannot sync up with old guild mates or friends who are willing to help along that path, i don't see a return in my future in any meaningful way unless that catch up path is smoothed out considerably.
    Bullsnooze likes this.
  2. VandilIzer Augur

    Honestly join one of the guilds, syncing up with old friends is great and the vast majority of the server is willing to help people returning or starting here, we know we need fresh blood to keep Phinny going and most people are willing to help with that in mind.

    We recently had several people return / start here and they got PLed to 90+, HoThule flagged (I personally did 3 full flag runs) and group geared in only a few days. Now that was a bit extreme but we still have a few people leveling through the 60s 70s and 80s and I see people slap them in the group as a rep for a merc all the time just to help them out.

    We have a married couple who returned from quiting during PoR and were only 70, they are doing the tour of EQ hitting each xpack they missed to farm augs and stuff and to see it but whenever they are feeling up for it they join mine and others groups and pound out VoA content, in a little over 2 weeks they are now 90+ with full HoThule group gear and some VoA stuff.

    Find a good guild of people or group of friends, show you are willing to put in the time and effort to better yourself first and most people will see that and happily help you along the way. Thats what a good community is all about.
  3. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Daily players aren’t driven away by a higher EXP rate. Daily players generally are working on achievements like hunters, saviors and conquests. By aiming to get these done they get all their AAs bought out naturally. They’re not grinding unless they’re rolling up new alts or boxes.

    Higher EXP rate would however help those 5 hour a week players who don’t want to have to play daily to keep up with levels and AAs. I don’t want these players to have to jump ship to a new server. Honestly I can’t see most of them making that move anyways because they’ve stuck it out this far on Phinigel. We are about to get into even more AA heavy expansions though, it would really be helpful for everyone to have higher EXP rates before we get deeper into them.

    New content releasing every 3 months is what guarantees players stick around. Inability to keep current on gear and AAs is what causes them to leave. Not many are leaving because they’ve run out of things to do. They may run out of things to do and only log in for raids but they continue subscribing and kick back into gear playing daily when expansions unlock.
    Skuz and Bullsnooze like this.
  4. McJumps TLP QoL Activist

    My biggest fear is that a lot of people are going to fall behind in the coming expansions and lose interest and, for me at least, going to a newer server isn't really an option. I have been on Phinigel for nearly 4 years and I want to see it through to live. I have done the earlier (read: boring) expansions too many times, and I am really enjoying the era that Phinigel is in now. That is what keeps me playing, and I know I am not the only one.

    The server is going to lose more population to people that cannot keep up than it ever will to people who -for some reason- want slower EXP, if those people even exist. I don't want a situation where we only have one guild left raiding by the time we hit live content. I want to have 3-5 guilds still consistently clearing content by then and the only way we do that is by making some changes. Changes to EXP, changes to drops, changes to currency. However it happens, it must happen for the vitality of the server.

    Changes to these things will have zero adverse effects on anyone and will only help to promote new players and returning players, as well as helping the server to progress in the coming expansions. We already know that DBG is willing to work with us, as we saw when they doubled raid chest loot during Underfoot. That sets a precedent that can be repeated for future expansions, since there were no adverse effects from that change.
    Skuz and Bullsnooze like this.
  5. Bullsnooze Augur

    I'd also like to add another statement.

    I can't speak for everyone, but while guild help is great and always appreciated. Personally, I don't want to be power-leveled through expansions as a means to catch up. I'd like to play through the content myself, in era, and experience that sense of accomplishment.

    I have no issues with the time between expansions being 3-months, so long as the experience rate is on par with said release schedule and difficulty of the content. Right now, the rate of experience is not on par with the release schedule of the server, nor does it align to the invisible (gear and AA) requirements per expansion.
    Skuz likes this.
  6. Dahaman Augur

    A similar issue is being cited on the veteran forums for live servers. There are a number of suggestions on how to address this AA mountain issue for live servers, similar to the Phinny issue. Likely the best avenue is for both camps to recognize this and have one solution cover both cases.

    Potential Solutions Suggested:

    - Autogrant two expansions back instead of today's four expansions back

    - continue to increase the base XP rate incrementally higher than the base TSS rate at certain eras of the game

    - discount AAs from older expansions (25% for 1 expansion old, 50% for 2 expansions old, 75% for 3 expansions old, and of course Autogrant at 4 expansions old)

    Couple others in that discussion too...

    The point being, join voices and ideas to be more readily heard.
    Chatoyan, Skuz, McJumps and 1 other person like this.
  7. Bullsnooze Augur

    I agree.

    I believe from a Product perspective, justifying this change for just Phinigel wouldn't be enough. Such a change would have to benefit the majority of servers as well.

    Progression servers are a win, but they still need fine tuning to support the expansion to expansion changes!.With the right changes, it would not only be a win for the overall community, but the company as well!
    McJumps likes this.
  8. Numiko Augur

    Maybe its time to revisit the exp bonus for low AA's they put in many years ago.
    I think now it peters out now about 5K aa's which was a lot for that time but is nothing now.
    Redo that to give Bonus exp up to 20K aa's (at least on live).
    Chatoyan and Bullsnooze like this.
  9. Machen New Member


    This would be a nice solution. And, rather than just raising it to a set number, they should make it percentage based, so they will never have to touch it again. IE bonus aaxp for the fist 75% of AA's to cap for your class based on the total number you can get at whatever expansion you are on, decreasing as you approach 75%.
    Chatoyan, Skuz, Accipiter and 3 others like this.
  10. Bullsnooze Augur

    That's a really good idea.

    @Dreamweaver - Any input from a company perspective on the topic? There's a lot of traction from the player side.
    Skuz likes this.
  11. McJumps TLP QoL Activist

    This is an excellent idea. Regular Exp really isn't the issue here. 5 levels on some expansion launches really doesn't take that long to obtain. The AAs however can sometimes be daunting, especially for a returning player or someone who would like to start fresh. Increasing the speed at which AAs can be obtained is the core of the EXP issue in my opinion. Other factors could be addressed as well (i.e. Raid loot frequency, keying, artificial blocks to progression) but this would be a good start I think.
    Skuz and Bullsnooze like this.
  12. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Accelerated EXP until you have every AA achievement completed except the last 2 on your character. This would work on TLPs and Live servers since the game knows to only show the AA achievements available for your current expansion.

    However these are code changes that aren’t likely to happen. I think changing Autogrants to be everything but the most recent 2 expansions would be a big step in the right direction and should theoretically not be a huge change. Also on TLPs I think adding a base 2 EXP modifier once the expansion SoF has unlocked is another relatively easy change available.
    Skuz likes this.
  13. Machen New Member


    The reason I like the idea of a specific threshold vs autogrant is that it would allow people who are trying to keep up on essential aa's the ability to save less important aa's for later while getting a bonus on the most important current era aa's. Simply granting aa's two expansions back does very little for active raiders that are trying to keep up with all the current expansion aa's consistently--especially in the expansions where you need to get 2000+ new aa's in 3 months' time.
    Skuz and McJumps like this.
  14. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    For TLP with accelerated unlock rates there should be accelerations of other things to go along with it, not doing so is poor planning & eventually ends up depriving players of what they need to progress.

    Faster expansion unlocks by themselves is a "lazy" way to fast track players to the part of the game where they need to spend money on expansions to remain current - that is what the business decision behind TLP servers is ultimately all about, fast-tracked Nostalgia trips for the players & eventually a payoff for Daybreak over and above increased subscription.

    The issue as I see it is that player retention is not modelled well enough, if at all,so if the company relies on players returning for a TLP only to then expect them to TLP-HOP from one TLP to the next to relive that classic experience ad-nauseum I think they are missing that a chunk of players certainly do exactly that but that another bunch would rather play on TLP from classic all the way through to live, what I have seen time & time again is that players are older & simply don't want to dedicate all of their available free time to EverQuest any more &I think Daybreak need to address that sensibly.

    If you create a TLP with fast track unlocks you need to have fast track of all the content that goes along with that, XP, AA, spawns, loot from raids, anything less is hamstringing players & artificially choking their progression while expecting them to rush through content faster, it's a veritable ball & chain effect.
  15. Machen New Member


    The standard should not be, "How long were live players stuck in the expansion because nothing else was released?" But rather, "How long did it actually take live players to complete this content?"

    Arguing that we should have four times the exp and gear drop rates that live did, because we have the expansion for three months and they had it for a year, is ridiculous. In most cases, they stopped logging in after three months, maybe six, and simply waited till the dev team could finish the new content for the yearly release.
  16. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Bogus argument.

    Why? Opportunity,.

    Just because, in your opinion at least, some players only played an expansion for 3 out of 12 months means TLP players should only get that long with the same experience & drop rates is completely laughable, those live players who did that had a CHOICE to do so, they had the option to play the full 12 months before the next expansion dropped if they wanted, on TLP nobody has that option available to them.
  17. Dythan Ban Lev in Plane of Fire guy


    Sure they do. Nothing requires you to move to the next xpac, stay in VoA zones and move at your own pace. I'm down to needing less then 500 AA to cap, with 6 weeks ahead of me, and 2 of those will have bonus XP. XP on phinny is fine if your playing EQ like it's intended. If your playing it like a solo rpg 45 min a week, I would suggest EQ is not the game for you.
  18. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    It’s just simply not true that “in most cases they stopped logging in after three months, maybe six”. People certainly reduce their log ins at the end of an expansion cycle but it’s only the most hardcore people who complete everything in the first few months then just farm raids. Most players just slowly complete content as they find free time hopefully getting what they can done until he next expansion unlocks.

    People were still doing lesson burns in my guild 9+ months into each expansion multiple times a week.
    Skuz likes this.
  19. Skuz I am become Wrath, the Destroyer of Worlds.

    Yet another bogus & deliberately obtuse argument, nobody remaining on Phinigel in one of the main raiding guilds is happy to fall behind their peers & not worry about being unable to help their guild progress when the next expansion unlocks, oh yeah we have the choice to fall behind & not keep up with the guild progress, pure genius that...
    McJumps likes this.
  20. McJumps TLP QoL Activist

    Sorry to call you out, but this is a classic straw-man argument. While it was mentioned that live does indeed have the expansion for 4 times as long as Phinny, nowhere did anyone in this thread argue for 4 times the XP, loot or otherwise. The most anyone has made a case for, to my knowledge, is double the current rate.

    I agree with you that 4 times the rate, to be consistent with the amount of time given, would indeed be too much. However, no one here was making a claim that it should be used in the calculation of XP, loot or any other resource.

    I do find it interesting that in doing the math based on your own admissions in this particular post, that it would take "maybe six" months for a completion of the expansion, that we come to a number sounding very much like the double xp, loot, etc that most have pushed for in this thread.

    Anytime you want to do something for the betterment of the entire server, you have to ask what will benefit the most people while having the least amount adverse effects on the outliers. The outliers in this case being the people who grind non-stop and finish maxing out AAs in the first month, and those who casually play and are not quite done by the time the next expansion launches. The vast majority of the server falls somewhere near the middle of those two extremes. Please explain how a change to XP or loot, assuming double the rate, would have an adverse effect on any of these groups? Or even to DBG if you want to take the bottom line approach? You have stated that arguing for 4 times the rate would be "ridiculous" but you never said why. Would an argument for double the rate also be "ridiculous"? If so, why?
    Skuz and Froger like this.