vet aa Changes

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by taliefer, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. That0neguy Augur

    Yeah I don't think its necessarily what they are trying to address either, or they think that moving them back addresses it somewhat? I am not sure, it's very hard to understand some of these changes when they won't talk to us about the reasons behind it. If it is really just "because we want to spread them out to when they were originally available" then yes its a really bad move.

    Except you didn't have to give your support over a lengthy period, you only had to have an active account. I played from '99 to '08 yet I have 14+ yrs entitled on mine. Was i really supporting them for the 10yrs after I quit playing?

    Just because it's only once a day doesn't make it any less OP.

    Also how would this change affect Live? Live is way past all of these xpac's so they will see no impact at all from this change. You seem to just want to argue but have 0 clue about how these work or the changes that they are actually making.
  2. Aneuren Tempered Steel

    You know what, I owe you an apology, someone else has been arguing for complete removal of the veteran reward in the patch discussion thread and I confused you with him.

    I am sorry - I've been bridling at the suggestion that these aa should be completely removed since I read that post. You don't seem to be making that suggestion, so the error is mine.

    I disagree with the rest of your post though. Players that have an active account still support this game for the period that they are subscribed. Yes, it'd be even more support if they actually log in and add to the community, but there's nothing wrong in rewarding those players. There is something wrong with taking those rewards away after the fact. They've been around long enough, and they've been around long enough on TLPs in very specific eras, that it's an insult to players to whimsically change them now. The effects won't win an encounter just by pressing the button and there's no reason to make any of these changes.
  3. That0neguy Augur

    I do agree with whoever you are mad at. I think it would be better for the game to remove or change some of those rewards. Although seems to be an very unpopular opinion around here.

    How exactly did my account sitting there for 10yrs support the game? I was not paying a sub or using krono, yet my time continued to tick up.

    It sucks to lose an ability, especially one that is OP. You have to think of the health of the game as a whole. Are rewards like these that seriously break the balance of the game acceptable?
  4. Aneuren Tempered Steel

    I was not a supporter of moving veteran rewards to /played and was quite content to have it that way. You won't have any fight from me if you wanted to support moving it back to that.

    As for game balance? I just don't see it. Rewards have been around for a long time, guilds are still struggling to clear content on live. Even on TLPs, you don't see every guild clearing in-era content once those rewards activate. They aren't magic iWin buttons. They're awesome to have and, you know what, that's okay.
    Tymeless likes this.
  5. Ceffener Augur

    They went from being given to people for having active sub to everyone based on sub age with the the F2P change. So the people who paid over $1600 to earn their 14 years seem to value it much more than the people who got their rewards even if they stopped playing.
  6. neveroom Journeyman

    Lets be fair it doesnt trivialise content, maybe 1st kills are easier but in general its people who created new accounts who are whining.
    Just give everyone Max Veteran aa's, i mean seems the best option, advertise it to get people back maybe /shrug.
  7. yerm Augur

    I was probably the one arguing to remove the imbalanced vet rewards. If it wasn't me, I will argue it again now.

    Tangible boosts to character power that are significant and unattainable for many people are a serious problem. This is not a raider vs nonraider, ow vs instance only, where one might choose to pass. This is seeing your character significantly hamstrung relative to other dps and/or tanks who do have them and seeing NO recourse, your options are buy a vet enabled account and reroll, or be stuck behind.

    Just in my selo guild, with significantly less folks than faceless as a sample size, I witnessed:

    - 1 for sure, 2 others I suspect, quit about a week and a half into GoD frustrated that they simply could not measure up to the dps of someone with 7th. Our raid leaders would routinely chastise folks for not using 7th on a race - people without it available couldn't help but feel 2nd class even if they weren't directly the ones criticized. You can only hear "you need to use your 7th or we lose the race" so much before thinking you suck at racing without it. Feeling like you cannot keep up is one of the biggest killers on Selo - guess how not having vets makes you feel?

    - 2 people I know of, I assume MANY more I do not, RMT'd for vet-enabled accounts. The ones I know of were only because they got banned in that 7-21 day suspension wave, I mocked them "I thought you didn't cheat hoho" and other typical trolling, their answer? Paid (former officer) for an account so I would have (desired vet aa).

    Those massive box army dudes from pre-truebox tlps and/or live are often sitting on 7+ year old accounts, and daybreak won't put out a non-truebox tlp for them to army up. So they sell them to otherwise-legit players who want to come back to eq but not be a . Or make a dps box. Or... whatever reason. A whole 3rd party market that (unsurprisingly to me) the devs didn't even realize existed until the foh AMA and followups brought it up.

    - 3 people I know of main changed onto the same account as the former main, not a box, to keep vet rewards. At least 2 of them I know for certain would have subbed a 2nd account, with the revenue for daybreak that entails, but instead chose to basically scrap a time geared char so their new main has 7th. Another person was talking out of making a berserker mainchange because during ldon chatting he realized his choice was either same account as current main or vetless; he didn't reroll, and at this point has quit eq.

    Most veteran rewards are fun, convenient, or useful without boosting power. Xp boosts, vendors, teleport to guild lobby, all great. The problem is ones that just make you better at killing. If they made them obtainable, had an equal alternative, sure. IMO they should just drop them and replace with stuff less game breaking. A group-version lesson, out of combat rez, unique attunements, a cool mount, /pizza or /taco, even free heroic boosts with enough time. Anything but boosts to character power.
    SoandsoForumUser likes this.
  8. taliefer Augur


    there IS a comparable alternative. glyphs. especially on Selos with that ludicrous exp i have a hard time believing anyone who cared that much couldnt get 20aa to burn on tunat or whatever fight 7th was encouraged on.

    armor is a once a day use, that can absolutely save a raid if goes south. other than that it doesnt really make someone a better tank than a person who doesnt have it. and honestly, how often before like underfoot, do any raids actually wipe on TLPs

    intensity i can buy the argument slightly more since i think it can be used once every 3 hours or so? if you have max vet aa. thats probably at most 2 fights a day however. and again, glyph of destruction is a viable alternative if people really get hurt they cant compete on a fight or two a night.
    Wyre Wintermute likes this.
  9. Hadesborne Augur

    Look, now you made me do it. I have to come in here and fix some horrible logic...AGAIN.

    By this logic let's just give everyone Monk DPS and Feign Death.

    Suck it up buttercup. Understand that there is MORE merit in having done something for a long time than there is in stepping up recently and "becoming the newest best thing" swiftly. This, is life. Live longer, and you will learn (through experience) this simple point.

    Those are the VERY same people that need to learn, that you just dont get to have everything that someone else has, when they have put more time (and effort) into something than you have.

    Your raid leaders need to put more time in a leadership role if they cannot understand the ramifications of their poor leadership skills then.

    ALL of this is against the EULA. As such it is an INVALID argument, and should be dismissed immediately.

    See above. DISMISSED.

    Understand that this behavior is based on making decisions that broke the EULA and again should be dismissed due to being an invalid argument.

    Asking for the same things that others have, when they simply have PUT MORE TIME INTO the game than you, is like a 14 year old asking why they cannot goto a bar for drinks. EARN IT. These people simply have not. Their whining and moaning about not having what others have is ridiculous. They have the means to make it happen, it is called PLAY THE GAME LONGER. Again, welcome to life.
    Wyre Wintermute likes this.
  10. Hadesborne Augur

    There I fixed it for you.
  11. Hadesborne Augur

    You are not understanding and maybe you never will, that having done something for longer than someone else HAS MERIT. It literally means you have put more effort into something than others. These abilities are not game breaking at all. Just because you are forced to use other means to compete with others that have these abilities is not a valid reason to take these abilities away from someone else that has EARNED THEM. You want to DPS race them, bring more people next time, you are talking about open world DPS racing. Better yet, play the game longer and EARN these rewards. Then you may fully understand.
    Wyre Wintermute likes this.
  12. Aneuren Tempered Steel

    Every TLP there seems to be something new that people nitpick against.

    Ironically, the veteran rewards that you listed create some of the larger disparities. If we are comparing the hypothetical 0 time account to a veteran account, the free exp boost every day is not only significant, it's something that the new account would have to pay real money for in order to have access to a similar boost every single day. Having personalized vendors is completely irreplaceable, and clicky all/all teleport items of any kind are exceedingly rare or won through loot boxes so, again, by paying real money.

    The fact is that pretty much every veteran reward gives a unique ability that's either hard or outright impossible to replace. If that's not acceptable, the only correct argument is that the entire program should be scrapped. My argument is that it is acceptable, especially given that every single player can attain them - it simply takes time.

    These abilities are not game breaking, they are not magic iWin buttons, and they cannot alone transform a terrible player into an amazing one or make or break a particular class. Skilled players who use them wisely can benefit, occasionally, from their proper use, but a solo player with these abilities isn't going to walk up to a current-expansion raid boss and solo it with them.

    In fact, if anything, it's a boon to their fellow players that they can take advantage of their group/guild/friend's veteran rewards simply by being present with them.

    I can't fix bad leadership though. Everquest has a stoic history of, sadly, rewarding players with malice in their hearts.
    Wyre Wintermute likes this.
  13. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    Glyphs don't belong in the game during GoD either and the DPS glyphs don't compare at all to 7th

    This is actually just false. During 3 splits on Phinny we straight up used monks with Armor to tank on the Jelvan encounter. On OMM if someone missed a mask click many of our tanks could just click Armor and live. I've seen Monks and SKs solo the raid Minis in era because of 7th and 9th.
  14. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    It's very easy to cap XP in the eras Lesson is available. Lesson doesn't stack with pots and you can buy pots and earn XP pots in game via the Anniversary event. It likes most of the other Vet AA is useless or a quality of life thing.

    7th really is just an iWin button in DPS races.
  15. That0neguy Augur

    So by your logic I have put in the effort to reap these rewards by letting my account be stagnant for the last 10 years. Why is it then when I create another account, since I was the one who put forth the effort, I don't have access to these rewards?

    You are arguing based on the idea that people who put in more effort should be able to have these abilities. When the real fact of the matter is no one should have these abilities. I know its unpopular because everyone who has something doesn't want to lose it. But if it wasn't so OP, why would you be worried about losing it? Plain and simple these abilities are broken.
  16. taliefer Augur


    plain and simple they arent in the least bit broken
    Wyre Wintermute likes this.
  17. taliefer Augur


    parses prove otherwise. especially since the glyph lasts twice as long.
  18. taliefer Augur


    you are using two classes that are blatantly OP in that era in themselves to prove a point. not sure thats really helping your argument. monks in particular dont need armor or 7th to do what you claim here
    Wyre Wintermute likes this.
  19. WaitingforMoreEQ WaitingforTBC

    Why do i even bother responding to people like this. I'm a idiot.
  20. taliefer Augur


    im inclined to agree.