Understanding the Everquest playerbase

This is a thing I wish I'd known about - thanks, appreciate it.

So how did you guys do the pre order without paying to get into beta? Are you talking about now? Or at game release?

The Burning Lands beta is available to anyone who pre-orders the expansion. source: https://www.everquest.com/news/eq-the-burning-lands-beta-testing-rewards-2018

But as stated - I am now happy with the game as it is. I do not complain about the game. Other than the fact one had to pay to pre order for beta About the only thing I would have contributed was to ask hairstyles be changed anyway.

The beta used to be closed with an attached NDA, then it became open to anyone who pre-orders the expansion. My memory is a bit foggy on when the actual charge for the pre-order happened though, at the time of pre-order or at launch.

honestly, I don't get the "I don't have the money" excuses.... I mean, I DO get it, I just don't see it as a valid excuse for people who have been playing and buying expansions at launch time for years. If you know a new expansion to the game you're playing will be out, literally every year around the same time, you can budget for it just like any other expense.

in any case, yeah the guilds that do raid testing tend to get a handful of beta-keys for folks that haven't pre-ordered to use... but consider the logic there before you complain about it
1- it makes no sense to test raids without a full raid present (or at least the target number of people the raid is designed for).
2- each of these guilds is going to *require* main accounts to purchase the expansion before launch if they're going to be part of "the race"... DBG is going to get their money from the accounts using those keys. so it's a zero risk scenario for them.
3- most of these guilds spend a significant amount of time in beta testing the group content as well as the raid content. progression / quests lines in particular. why WOULDNT they make sure that these folks have access.

the pre-order access to beta is much, MUCH better than the invitation only access to beta as it relates to this thread.... and the pre-order system opens testing up to a much larger portion of the population. during the invite-only era, entire guilds would still get invited to test raids but only a certain number of individuals (casuals) would be allowed access.

Beta really is more of a Preview. You already paid for it. They have your money, so ultimately they don't have to change much if anything (beyond bugs), in spite of whatever feedback ensues. The key premise and mechanics are already in place. So if you do the pre-order and then get into the beta, don't like what you see or feel its going to be a bit more of an investment in time to enjoy than there is time free....well....you can't get your money back.You can make feedback, but if the overall majority of the beta players think its good, which will be the raid guilds wanting that leg up on "the race", then its going live as is.

So there really is more of a focus for the dev team to understand their market and what their product is trying to achieve. They probably don't have countless hours to go back to the drawing board or chase down every lead. Casuals have to count on the dev team to not forget about them and the raiders in the more accomplished guilds do have to maybe have a more broad big picture perspective in mind past their own ambitions. IE: They might want to considered the little guy as well. Should the game be steered to accommodate casuals? No. It should also not entirely alienate them either.

What a simplistic view of things. I would say more but it's not like you would listen.

So paragraph one then why paragraph two? Since you don't get the "I don't have the money" excuses?

The charge happened at the time of pre-order.

Here we go again ... there WAS feedback, not only from casuals but also from top raiders saying content is too harsh for groupers .... TBL released .... was 'widely unpopular' is the term eq dev used.

Quit telling casuals to get off their because even if they do, it makes no difference.

Those who say just do beta aren't going to get it. They just can't see that group players are not driven by the desire to beat EQ each expansion so they aren't going to rush and do beta for advantages once the expansion goes live.

If we had one of those Men In Black gadgets and every beta person was going to be memory wiped beta would become a ghost town.

I get raiders like to play a competitive game and win at EQ. When I played CoD I was out for blood and winning. People just have to face that a large part of the EQ population aren't playing to "win EQ" they are playing to have a more PVE only type of experience. They aren't trying to beat other groupers they are just enjoying a shared experience in a fantasy world of magic and dragons.

Both raiders and casual players are important to the financial health of DBG. I don't think the game would survive losing either group.

Now this foolishness about groupers have to embrace the suck because they don't do beta. This isn't beta for a brand new game. THIS IS BETA FOR EXPANSIONS FOR A GAME THEY HAVE BEEN PUTTING OUT FOR TWENTY YEARS NOW. Seriously if they game devs still can't get a handle on raising the difficulty level from one expansion to the next for the group game then they need to review how they are doing things for areas of improvement.

The raid game is meant to be complex and competitive. Doing beta to get the raid game right is needed because it is complex.

I played EQ from almost day one. The group game did not start out as mini versions of the raid game. That slowly crept into the game as I guess game devs figured it would be easier to just use scaled down versions of raids Those same mechanics crept into the static zones of the group game too.

And groupers doing beta? The devs have spoked they achieved exactly what they were going for with TBL. It just wasn't popular with many.

Adult conversation?

. an option actually exists that allows them to directly talk to the very people who design the content in order to help them an guide them in the game's actual creation.

budgeting actually exists that allows people to save money for an ENTIRE YEAR .. so that they can get into beta..

This is LITERALLY .. not even debate able ..

This is LITERALLY .. do it if you want to be able to help steer the direction of the game ..

This is LITERALLY .. dont do it if you don't want to .. but dont be #itching about it later because you were too stupid to budget or set aside literally 2 dollars a Ducking month .. until next expansion launch happens ..

If you refuse to take part in beta.. that crap's on you .. thats not .. in any friggen way shape or form .. ON THE DEV'S ..

GTFOH .. with that stupidness ..

He also stated to some its easy .. so..

whats your point puddin?

You need little vacation from ForumQuest .

Except the devs have ignored all tuning feedback and suggestions on AA/Spells/Items and only been concerned about bugs/typos for the past 2-3 betas. Our ability to have input and change the direction of our classes has all but been completely stripped compared to the past.

Ive taken part of every beta since VoA and ever since RoF/CotF era, we've had little to no voice in the tuning/implementation of AA/Spell/Items, we get what we get and all they will change is bug fixes.

And I get that alot of that is due to a smaller team, limited time/resources, etc. I'm not faulting them for it but its a pretty undeniable fact that players dont have the same input we used to, and for some of the more vocal its disheartening.

I need a vaca.. from people who cry about stuff they themselves have the ability to fix ..

Yet refuse to do said fixing..

You absolutely 100% with out doubt are .. faulting them for it.

Just because you add a line of text trying to say you dont fault them for it ..

Does not make it so..

As I've pointed out .. 1 year is 12 months .. the lowest price for xpansions tends to be 39.99.

To all you people who say you can't afford expansions ..

I say.. perhaps you ought not be playing the game them. Its literally less then 4 dollars a month you have to put away for 1 year to afford the lowest priced expansion they offer to get into beta.

If you can not afford to put away 4 dollars a month your issue is no longer can you afford to play eq .. responsibly.. its "SHOULD" you be playing ..

No at no point did I assign a motive or reason for why they ignore tuning feedback/suggestions. It could be they dont care as much, but I find it far more likely they dont have the same time to devote per category as before with a smaller team and diverted focus.

Admitting that things change over time and that the current dev team is more limited than in the past doesnt make you a whiner nor is it calling the devs out in anyway. If anything its attacking the lack of funding and proper support the game receives from Daybreak. But interpret it as you will I guess.

Well said..