GMM – Let’s get this over with.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Tappin, Sep 3, 2019.

  1. Inga Elder

    If flipping HA is the problem, just add lockout timer when any mob is killed for all GMM HAs. Also, you can add minimum interval between waves. These changes will do no harm for casuals and affect only raid geared players' "exploit" or whatever they call.

    If you have to make them hard, please make sure to use Pet/Tank Merc with 1 Healer Merc for tuning. Also, it is very annoying that the snare DoT Tangling Grapple by climbers on step 2 does strikethrough DA. They are not special mobs, so their ability should not have such function.


    I feel risk vs reward is fine for GMM HA, which takes about 80 minutes at best for me. What's wrong is TBL risk vs reward compared to other expansions. Everyone noticed that on day 1.

    TBL is no risk expansion for many casual players. It is not even allowed to challenge without player tank + healer and other 3 players, so there are many casuals who got no reward for full price expansion. Then, you should find real tank and healer? Well, it is the very reason mercenary exists and they are practically disabled as the ATK (and heroic strikethrough?) of the mobs is too high and the AEs are extremely strong, even after tuning. The problem is not level, AA nor effort. It is opportunity a player can join perfect group which is required for everything in TBL unless you have raid gears.

    If TBL zones were open, casual players could get gears slowly when they could find fine group and easier named. I can't understand why developers are trying to disturb grouping with locked zones. Everquest is MMO and players enjoy MMO when grouped with other players. If you cannot zone, you cannot form group and camp. The chance to find group is precious, unless you are playing on most populated time zone in most populated servers. Why do they have to decrease it with additional artificial barrier? Mercenaries are created 11 years ago, and open zones are also very old feature (with few exceptions). I can't understand why these are removed simultaneously when player population is much lower.

    DBG did everything that make TBL as worthless as possible for casual players and I assume it affected expansion sales very well. I had known TBL is the worst expansion in 20 years for casual players when purchased, but if I pre-ordered it without knowing it, I would have felt cheated. If GMM HA becomes as hard as TBL base pop, casual players will also lose the place to evolve Fight Fire chase shoulders/boots, and TBL will finally become no zone, no mission, no armor expansion.

    GMM HA was the last life‐support system for casual playerbase annihilated by TBL. Are you really making it as hard as TBL? If so, would you please offer something for casual players instead? Add muhbis to GMM HA loot table for caster dps classes still using RoS focus? Cross-server instancing to increase the chance to find pick up progression group? Open all TBL zones, or create an easy quest in new expansion that unlock all TBL zones? Make all TBL progression quests related to locked zones moloable or beatable with mag pet and 2 healer mercs, or give permanent access to all TBL zones with 1 smoke trial win? Or do you make next expansion very casual friendly, such as EoK-like zones with TBM-like progression? I will accept all of them.

    We know the resources developers have is very limited. Then, why don't you use TBL as new contents for casual players? TBL has least value for casuals right now, but if you tune its difficulty properly, you can offer massive amount of contents equal to full expansion for almost free. Please make the money casual players paid for and the effort you put into expansion worthwhile.
    Graves and Bottle like this.
  2. yosco Augur


    I fear your reasonable requests will fall on deaf ears. @Tappin and others have ensured that the casual EQ player's "easy street" will end because their pleasure in the game is somehow tied not to their own experience, but rather the experiences of those around them. How else should we measure our success in a game called EVERquest, but to look around at your neighbor and complain that they're getting off too easy.
    Xeladom and Bottle like this.
  3. Bamboompow Augur

    It was good while it lasted. Just like all the other so called "gifts" the game has offered in the past that eventually had to be rescinded. Usually as a result of the busy body-esque outcry from the same tier of players complaining who feel threatened by said gifts for whatever reason. Usually because it threatens to unravel the caste system in their view. The Lianebs, the Whulfgars. Those who "know whats best" for the game. The Devs listen to these guys and structure the game around making sure they are challenged, but casuals mostly get concessions due to the fact that the game still has to make money.

    Again, the gym membership analogy rings true. The big bodybuilders who win competitions sell the dream. They can be taxing on the equipment, a bit authoritative in their demands and arrogant towards others customers, but the gym owner is going to give them whatever they ask for. Still, its the people who get a gym membership on January 2nd, go a few weeks seriously motivated before changing their minds to a "visit once in a while" approach are what pay the bills.

    Get guud, people. Get guud. You don't get a choice now if you ever want to leave Frontier Mountains.
    Bottle, Spellfire and yosco like this.
  4. Whulfgar Augur

    Your position is clear.

    You want the best xp in game for the least effort given.. I get it. That is however not how everquest has survived for 20 yrs.

    And thankfully.. they will be changing GMM to reflect that as well. Thank you devs.
  5. Lianeb Augur

    I find it funny that you used my name in this post to insinuate that I have a louder voice than others.
    I actually like this game, and generally do things the hard or what I feel is right in my mind.
    I have never flipped an HA, not even the TT mission for evolve, VP nerf didn’t affect me cause I always fought to the mobs anyway. Never even flipped a DH HA for xp. Never did task adds during HoT for XP, not OMM missions when they were the hotness

    I don’t believe I have claimed this mission is to easy, I know I can 6 box it with a raid geared tank and and group geared others classes in under 10 min, and I can do fight fire in under 5, if I change out my gear for conflagrant gear I can do it under 15. But I never said any of that.

    If you want my honest opinion read on:
    These gold mine missions do more to hurt the community than they do good. Everyone is there leveling up their 2nd or 3rd or whatever alt they can, because the zone is that good. All this does is creates a generation of players that do not know how to play the toons they PLd in this mission. Toons they later decide to play as your main and don’t really know how.

    I join pick up groups because I find it fun and challenging, and let me tell you I have seen the gambit of “casual” player and their play. Ever seen a mage out dps’d by their own pet? I have even seen whole groups that I could KS if I were outside the group.

    I get xp grabs are fun to some while they last but I feel they do much more harm than people think. TBL is touted as one of the toughest expac sin a while, some of it is warranted but not all of it.
    Leveling a toon 3-4 times on 40 or so mobs should never be an option above level 100. Gaining 3-4% on those raid level chase items in 30-40 mobs should never be an option

    I typed this on my phone so probably many typos
    Belexes likes this.
  6. yosco Augur


    Please. I've seen all sorts of exp bs over the years that resulted in way better exp gain for way less effort. Shrouds? Wine quest? Bard's kiting entire zones ae dotting? Wizzies doing the same with beams? SKs (still, kinda) swarming? Ranger HS? Fellowship/vitality? That's not even counting all the really bad exploits that I won't go into here...

    I think it's very clear that Everquest has changed DRAMATICALLY over the last few years. There's been a ton of quality-of-life features added. Your assertion that everquest has survived because it's hard holds almost no water when you factor in that information.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  7. dreamweaver Community Manager

    While I understand that this can be a contentious subject, let's try to stay away from directly attacking each other.
    Corwyhn Lionheart and Whulfgar like this.
  8. Whulfgar Augur

  9. Laronk Augur

    I personally would like to see better experience modifiers in TBL, kills in gmm static or instance gives a lot more experience than Empyr for example. Empyr is even locked behind progression you'd think it would be better exp than it is.
  10. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Nerfing the exp only for those over 110 shouldn't be a problem though.
  11. yosco Augur


    I'm going to assume this was a shadow edit lol.

    Anyway, I don't really care one way or another about the GMM HAs. I did them a little when I came back into the game, but I personally stopped and did other things. I still camp the static zone, but don't normally bother with the HAs.

    But, I don't like nerfs. I also box and do my own content because I just don't have time to sit around looking for a group (who does, anymore). Playing the game the way I want to play is important to my experience, so being told by other people that my experience is somehow wrong or insufficiently difficult really irks me. Who is anyone to say where I should or shouldn't spend my time in game?

    These complaints and calls for nerfs aren't going to benefit the people complaining. Do you actually think anyone calling for these nerfs are going to say "oh, GMM HA's are harder now.... let's go do them!!! yaya!!!!"

    Absolutely not. Not a single person calling for these nerfs are going to expressly choose to NOW start doing that content.

    So why change it for the rest of the people who would choose the content?
  12. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Do you understand that for some players they max levels in a day, or days, after an expansion is out regardless of GMM? The issue here seems to be people not wanting everyone to do it in a few days.

    That being said I don't think GMM should give good exp after 110. Leave it as is for those doing it up to 110 but nerf it hard for after that. In my opinion.

    How fast do you usually level in a new expansion?
    Bottle likes this.
  13. Lianeb Augur

    I would.
    See my post above about taking the hard way
    Belexes likes this.
  14. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    And might I add please don't make up things and tell someone they said it :)
  15. yosco Augur


    So you've never done a GMM HA?
  16. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    I have no data on Wulfs assertion that EQ has endured because it is hard. I can state that I have been playing the game with no breaks for 20 years almost all of that 20 years running what has mostly been a grouping guild raiding being a very early thing. I stuck with running the guild and playing EQ all that time because of the people.

    Now the raiding game DOES thrive on a challenging environment and guilds work hard to get game and server firsts. While you get more burnout from this competitive game I think it does help keep EQ going too.

    So I think the answer on whether EQ being hard as the reason for it still being here is only part of the answer not the whole thing.
  17. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    I don't think raiding thrives on challenging content. Technically, the raid game expanded greatly whenever the raids were ridiculously easy (some, like in the crossover raid time where guilds raided multiple expansions at once (Gates, Omens, DoN, DoDH, etc), and all in like SoD), and has contracted every time the content was too hard for many guilds.

    As much as I like some challenge when raiding, the results dictate otherwise.

    If raiders were only 1% that would mean the game was doing WAY better than it is. Regular raiders are probably about 15-20% of active players.
  18. yosco Augur


    I think this is a great point. I've watched the raid game contract dramatically as the content has gotten harder and harder while simultaneously the gear inflation has gotten more and more out of hand. Why raid for EoK raid gear when TBL group gear is way better? Even RoS raid gear (with the exception of focii) is comparable to some of the GMM group gear. I dabble with an open raiding group, and even with some assistance from experienced raiders they struggle at content that probably should be doable...

    What this means is fewer and fewer raiding guilds are bothering because they aren't equipped or ready for prime time (high-end RoS or TBL), but group content gear is better than what you can get in earlier expansions (EoK).

    It's not shocking, but thanks for pointing it out.
  19. Lianeb Augur

    I have never flipped an HA, not even for a named mob, or collections. If I do them which I do now and then it is to completion. I did the GMM missions during anniversary for gear for alts and the achievements, and I don’t think I have been there outside of raids in probably 4-5 months

    My OCD doesn’t allow me to not know what is in the chest
    Gana and Yinla like this.
  20. yepmetoo Abazzagorath

    I always completed them, which is why I still don't have the ac aug. I flipped a mission 1 time a month ago to see if there was any lockout, and another weekend I did 3 of them in a row trying for the named, after they noted its getting nerfed somehow.

    I just don't have the patience to flip the things over and over. Need to for that stupid aug though I guess, before its changed.