It is pretty obvious that unless something is done about the GMM HA, people are going to be doing all of their leveling in it.
This is a departure from normal how? Removed from those who jump right into all the progression on expansion launch, which mainly tend to be set groups in raid guilds unlocking the raids or friends who have set group line ups, most everyone grinds out the levels in the previous content. HA's are preferred because you don't have to deal with all the knuckle heads from the whole server crowding into one initial zone. The mobs die faster. The zones everyone knows like the back of their hand. Its efficient. Now perhaps some enjoy the competition of seeing who can out pull/out dps their neighbor, steal named/quest mobs and just generally be posterior orifices. (Spoiler) Most players don't enjoy that kind of play in a PvA environment. Perhaps the "Vision" is that everyone has to be forced into new zones, compete for mobs/camps and slowly level/progress within the confines of that expac alone. Great idea if the game and people were not what they are today....which won't be gotten into here. Other than this game has too many players who put their own self interest above all others. The Dev Team seems perfectly fine with it. Taking GMM out or nerfing it to oblivion, it just further opens that gap up between the elite and casuals...and ratchets up the contempt. The fact that one or two people can post something and knock a whole player demographic down is asinine. All that can be said is...OWN IT. You are that guy!
Nerfing GMM will definitely spurn a large amount of contempt. Especially since it has been 6 months or whatever from release! The least damaging adjustment is to tackle the lockout timer, and lockout triggers. Casual players that run GMM no more than 2 times a day would be nearly unaffected. As many others have suggested, the issue of excessively easy/fast exp, if it is an issue, may be dealt with by increasing AA/exp required in expansion. Several have claimed that there are even better/faster sources of exp than GMM on live (Sathirs, etc, tho i'm not sure what the etc. is). Adjusting future exp requirements covers all the known and unknown exp rate issues without pulling the magic carpet out from underneath players that are enjoying their EQ in these high reward areas.
And why is that a problem for you? I guess it's better when everyone crams in Sathir's with numerous AFK groups. In between pulls, we can have fun reporting them .
I think that usage of new zones is one of the ways they get graded on an expansion success. So folks must do everything in the new zones at all costs.
That might be a false assumption. This game is so set in it ways as far as who does what and when. The acceptance of the new content early on will probably correlate with relative parity to who did beta, participation in raids guilds etc. There are those who just want the mystery of the worlds as well, detached from Beta. Ultimately the utilization of the new zones as a percentage of player base active is probably about the same every release. What is more telling is how many drop off back into old content a month or so after. Either due to it being blocked by a challenging gatekeeper or tedium. Those might be one in the same. What is more telling of a hit is if that participation number grows once the tedium of the grinding has run its course a bit. That's the rub. Look, ultimately we are talking about grinding levels and critical AA. People just want it over and done because its boring AF. Killing thousands of the same monsters for days on end. Yeehaw. New content IS more palatable though when your group doesn't need a guud raid tank just to kill trash when at the entry level zones. Granted if the first zone of a new expac almost requires max of all previous abilities, max new level and max critical skills to be able to be adventured in by most players...well Devs sorry but you blew it. That grinding has to happen regardless. Then you get to enjoy the good stuff like new worlds, abilities spells etc and trying to be first for that new whatever loot. Which might bring to the surface the real issue. That there may very well be those who have a very high level of self regard and they might feel endangered by some other individual(s) perceived as being so called "casual filth" infringing on their exclusive domain of elite achievement early on in a expansion packs cycle. They want everyone to be on the grind treadmill still while they claim exclusivity over something new. Same as it ever was. Most of us don't care. We really don't. You do you and we'll do us. Be first at whatever pixelated digital thing you want. Just don't make the grind even more of a butt-pain for the bulk of the players just to beat someone else to a chase item by a day. Especially by making public calls for nerfs on content that lots of people enjoy. Its just bad PR.
It is not a problem for me, I plan to do exactly that. It does have implications though, it is poor game design. One consequence of that is that if everyone is leveling up in GMM there is no reason for zones in the new expansion to anything other than challenging for 115 players. You will end up with a gribbles situation where players are playing in old HAs instead of in the new zones. Pretty much like TBL is now.
So how does nerfing GMM fix this bad game design issue? Or is this a "Get Guud" issue? As in too many players are soft, lazy, incompetent and complacent thanks to Gribbles/GMM. There is going to be contempt regardless so might as well be honest here. I don't run those missions much anymore. Not because I am Guud but because I got bored of them and moved on. Sometimes they are good for a quick dose of exp infusion without a bunch of logistics in finding a solid group. They have earned their place in the game.
I'm not disagreeing with anything your post, I did call on let's leave this mission alone earlier in the thread for more casual players. In my experience, when I touch base with a poor performing applicant, the common denominator of the worst of the worst is all they did was earn AA's in Gribbles. No variation in game play. No experiencing the vast content and other viable places to hunt or the adjustments needed to be successful else where. No needing to play with their classes abilities in more challenging play settings. What this tends to create is an applicant that doesn't under stand how to click buttons, has no situational awareness and asking them to move from an emote is pulling teeth. Total and utter molasses. People in RA like to work with green players and help them learn how to become better players. I find the players that only hunted in Gribbles for years to not be as open to changes in play and an unwillingness to learn new things. I don't mean to generalize, but thinking a bit on this from reading people's replies in this thread leads to think maybe it is better for the game and current skill disparity to force players along to try newer content and learn it. If green players really like the game and enjoy playing it, improve with the content may be what's best for the game on the whole. Let's be honest, TLP is where all the money is being made in the game. On "Live" servers, raiding guilds keep the need for new content going. We need more players willing to raid and able to raid to continue to see new content in EQ.
Good luck, but we're 20 years in and the people who have raided and stopped aren't exactly flocking back to it.
I can empathize with raiding guilds not wanting to "train" people and rejecting their apps or denying membership after the probation period. Reject away. The thing is, those players made a decision to level how they did, and then to apply to a raid guild. If they get denied than the choice is theirs to make as to what they want their in-game time to represent. There are plenty of resources out there for them to improve their game and then return once they have gotten a bit better prepared. Or they can just keep on grinding away the easy stuff. Its their choice. Their sub money. Their time. Raiding guilds will probably at least have an easier time filling their ranks with the system in place to at least get players to the point that they HAVE the levels and the Abilities and they got acquired in a reasonable amount of time. Learning those abilities is still on them though. Its an easier hill to climb at least. We are talking 110 (soon to be 115) levels and tens of thousands of AA. No one has the time to walk uphill both ways in waist high snow. Now if a precedent is established that a few "Concerned Citizens of Norrath" feel their opinion on how the game is to be played should become policy for all, does that represent players having choice? *shrug* Who knows. If EQ and its Vision are only about creating raid forces than perhaps those who lead raid guilds and raids are the ones in authority at the player level. As usual, that is a matter of debate....
So the thing to do is to get people into content that lets them learn what the newer, more intensive content is about. Increasing the time it takes to grind from 100 to 109 or whatever doesn't do anything to address the skill disparity. So here's a random thought: increase the experience stuff like Gribbles and GMM missions give, and stick a level cap on there. Once you reach x level, you're locked out and can't get more experience from them. If we want to get people into current content, let's give them easy ways to level up to a point where it's even possible to experience it, then force them to move. And while it sucks to teach people to play, that's what has to happen. 'There are lots of resources out there' doesn't really cut it anymore. So many of them are obsolete or abandoned, and so many communities are deliberately obtuse and secretive.
Don't HAs cap out at the maximum level that they were release now anyway? So once you hit 111 or 112... new expansion will be better anyway?
Jhenna, sounds like you are in a mid tier guild and sort of get it coming and going so to speak *smirk*. The Top 10 really does not have your problem, as they steal your membership after you train them up (sorry but its true). Still that doesn't mean you can't up your requirements and vet your apps more strictly to avoid the greenhorns that are too green. There are plenty of group achievements that require members to "get off the couch" so to speak. Tiers of Hero's Fortitude, Resolution and Vitality complete to a certain tier. EotD complete. Access to VP done. Making a certain parse on dummies. How to set up Audio Triggers if they need them. Generally speaking things that require a bit more teamwork and class knowledge. Mid Tier raiding ALWAYS needs apps, but it doesn't mean you set the bar low, either. If those apps do not want to put in the effort, show them the door out by all means. or never allow them to even step in through it in the first place. Yes, making the system weed these people out before they arrive on your door would help, but that is not entirely how it works. The Military would probably love nothing more to see legislation in place that would prevent recruits from coming in pre-diabetic at age 18 and no sense of discipline or ability to follow orders. Pretty much making bad parenting, video games, and junk food illegal, lol. (Un)Fortunately, things do not work that way.
I stand corrected then. Sorry Jhenna. Your guild must be more patient than most, or I have lost touch with that aspect of the game more than thought. Maybe Mid Teir is anything between 4 and 8 now and anyone not in the top 10 is not a "raid guild'? Heard that tossed around! Ha! Game has not gotten that small already, has it? The top guild over here is the #10, and they generally do not tag anyone that could be considered a project. They don't have time for that. They have a feeder guild, however. There are several other guilds as well here they rob players from too.
I'm in same guild as Jhenna and I think in the last 4 yrs. I can honestly say 1 in 10 applicants that were not "projects" in one form or another. And we have been in the top 10 for that entire time. For the most part I also agree with his sentiment that those that only see a very limited amount of content are extremely lacking in knowlege and experience of maximizing their potential. There are exceptions of course, but they are not the norm.
You cannot lock people out of doing Gribbles, it is part of CoTF Progression and has a set of collects. The main problem I have seen with many players is they lack AAs, auto grant gives you around 20K AA and classes max out at 37 - 47K AA. Yes some of those are fluff and tradeskill AAs but even then that is still a lot of AAs to earn to meet their max potential. If Daybreak are going to nerf GMM and make it much harder they need to find another way to help those with a low AA count catch up.
