I can safely predict the new expansion will be junk at launch

Couple years back I apped to a top level guild. Not under this character name. It was a top 5 guild. No names to avoid drama. It was during the beta for ROS. We spent day after day fighting and dying to Cactiki, who was brutally overtuned back then despite all our characters being boosted to 110. So no one went out to grind and fight regular named like the terribly overtuned majestic cockatrice in OT.

After about the sixth wipe to the cactus an angry raid leader's voice came over Ventrilo. "Come on people, we are not going to be the only ones who don't clear this on launch day."

I was so turned off. THat's all we were doing, learning strat to clear it on launch day for bragging rights. We weren't testing the game. Nor was anyone else. I was so turned off I ended my application that day and quit the game for a while because I knew ROS would be unplayable at launch. And it was. I went back to my mid-level guild, which was not invited or allowed into the ROS and later TBL betas.

So I know what will happen next.

ROI, MS, TR, etc, will all get to test it out, get boosted to 115, and use it to learn strats so they can have bragging rights that no one else gives a fudge about

Raids will be tuned for ROI, et. al., once again leaving those of us who don't live obsessively by firsts further behind as we get massacred.

One month of testing, vs. about six months for the average WoW expansion.

No one will go out and grind. ergo, the game will be totally under or overtuned at launch and for months thereafter.

And thanks to five new levels no one asked for, fun older zones will become worthless and it will be impossible to get anyone to go. And much older content, like CotF, which still has value for Heroic AA, will be a waste of time exp-wise.

Keep your expac, DBG.

I didn't ask for 5 extra levels, but I wholly accept and embrace it.

WoW is much more casual, maybe you should play that instead. I support the developers of EQ because I prefer this game over WoW. WoW is literally the same type of people frantically trying to server-first but it also caters to the casual crowd.

lol there is always one , impressive the whine even before it launches tho...kudos for that . EQ just isnt for you.

I disagree with your post. If you felt that way then maybe go into beta and try to change / test it give feed back. I know most every time I done beta with any guild I been in, live becomes a ghost town and everyone is on beta and we do test more then just raids.

Feedback was given in Beta. It was mostly ignored.

"And thanks to five new levels no one asked for" ??. Speak for yourself. Next, there is more to the game than raiding.

There's way more than 3 guilds testing events with Devs, and they take feedback and apply it. The only TBL raid that wasn't properly tested was Mearatas due to bugs in the early going, and well, ya..

Outside of Raids I had several long interactions with Devs regarding itemization, quest bugs and just random thoughts I had. Why? Because I was online, and I sought them out. They're not sitting there with blinders on maniacally cackling and high fiving eachother over how difficult the content they're producing is. If you don't want stuff to be tuned for bleeding edge players than take the initiative and co-ordinate with like minded people to get more involved in beta. I see hardly anyone outside of high end raiding guilds when we do dry group progression runs in Beta. People need to stop blaming the Devs for listening to the only demographic that actually offers them any input during the testing phase.

PS. Nobody is "not allowed" into Beta, everyone who pre-orders can log into Beta

Nothing gets ignored, they'll happily listen to anyone who presents their observations, ideas and concerns to them in a mature and respectful manner. Listening to feedback and implementing it are two totally different things and there shouldn't be any expectation of them adopting your stance on a particular issue, but they do listen, and the more people who echo your sentiments the more likely they are to act on it. We've gone over their lack of resources ad naseum, but just for posterity sake, this is a skeleton crew working extra hours (unreasonable amounts) to produce content for us to enjoy, I can't imagine how deflating it is to see people harp on their efforts year after year as if any of us could do a better job under the same circumstances.

And this is in no way the fault of the devs. They can't make people actually test things. The majority of people that log into Beta simply do it to see what the new things (spells, AAs, items, etc) are, then they log out and never come back.

We've had Beta periods longer than a month. But, guess what, there wasn't any more player engagement then either. People would log in and mess around a bit then disappear and, after the first month or so, it was a ghost town.

Question. Do guilds still get invited to do beta? I thought if you wanted to do beta the last few expansions it relied on you pre-ordering the expansion?

I ususally pre-order and with that get access to beta. Of course I run out of time just trying to do things in the Live game so I don't have time for beta and I enjoy seeing the content when it goes live for the first time. But I do read the beta forums and I do see people reporting on issues with group content.

On the other hand I would agree that the beta testers may heavily rely on those who are trying to get game and server firsts. You get a lot of testing and more importantly organized testing of the beta by the highest end players/guilds in the game. That isn't all negative though. Those same high end players have spent years learning the game inside and out so they tend to spot bugs or the reasons for them more easily then the average player. But yeah on the downside it's hard to tune a game when your primary testers are the best of the best... or at the very least good players led by the best of the best raid and group leaders.

I am sure top raid guilds really push for their members to do beta if not requiring it. Not only does that let them do all the raids it means they have easily accessible groups to strategize all the group content.

The answer those will give is everyone else should beta test too. In some ways that is a very valid argument. In some ways less so. And the argument the top raid guilds will make is that if you don't do beta you can't expect the game to be tuned to you. And if it is true these are the only folks doing beta then that seems fair enough to me from the player side. The reason a lot don't do beta is they aren't so fanatical and don't have the same stake in getting server or game firsts BUT it is hard to tune the game for the general game population if they don't do beta. (I haven't done beta for a long time so I don't know one way or the other).

From the Dev side I would think that at some point they have an idea how much below top raid guild level they have to make raid and group content. But they also need those beta testers. I think having content a bit over tuned early in an expansion in some ways rewards those people for doing the beta testing. And some may be surprised to hear I don't think that is an invalid way to look at things.

Now how DBG does things I have no idea. None really. If I were them though I would be gathering as much data on those who do beta to get a good idea of the player skill levels to use as a baseline on the testing done and how easily these folks get through it. Having a good read on that will make it easier to tune things down for the general game population. I would also be using the two months of an expansion release to seriously study what needs to be retuned and be ready to do it. I would in fact have a few ready to go patches that could bring things up or down whether its the raid game or the group game.

Now you still need feedback too to help tune things if you can't get the info from data mining. Maybe three or four polls would help during the first few months of an expansions release.

The next most important thing DBG can do is set the proper expectations for expansion tuning on release. If they feel they usually have a good grip on the group game and the non top tier raiding game I guess that would be the end of it. But if they regularly feel find that beta testing doesn't work as well for the general game populace they should set that expectation in advance.

I guess the question is if you set expectations on the first month of an expansion more or less being additional beta does that help or hurt expansion sales. Will it mean that folks who hear an expansion is really bad on release be more likely to take another look at it if they know there will be an official retuning after one month out

In the end there will be those who buy each expansion regardless of how good or bad the previous one will be.

And lastly if DBG is going to put in loopholes in progression or short cuts or ways to avoid doing the standard progression model from the last many many expansions be sure third party sites report the info and methods There are many who love figuring things out for themselves. Thing is there are many more who want to look up the info on a website or ask someone else who looked it up how to get things done.

No, you speak for YOURSELF, dorf. There is no reason why DBG can't make raid encounters tough and challenging to 110s. They don't need 115 to make them harder. 115 will give us NOTHING beyond stats boosts and old spells with new names. None. It is a complete lack of creativity to think levels = content.

Level cap increases serve one purpose: to force players to buy the expac. I would love to see sales of expacs with increases vs without. I bet TBL sold a lot less, especially with its awful start.

And I won't be the least bit surprised if Vindi 2.0 and his two escorts have to be balance DPSed down, since that mechanic has been used ad nauseum since COTF. God forbid they should introduce a new mechanic.

Not even before it launches - before seeing any of it!

There is absolutely no pleasing the whiners who already decided that they won't like it. I'm sure the devs are way over this kind of stuff by now, they've learned to ignore it.

I did. But thank you for noticing. You are not our spokesperson. Oh, and have a nice day.

Let me rephrase my comment.

Feedback was given in (many) betas. It was listened to but mostly not implemented.

I was not implying that EQ devs suck - I'm well aware of Daybreak operating with a skeleton crew these days and them having the game still going after all those years is quite an accomplishment. I've heard 'not enough time for this or that' comments frequently and it is understandable that there is no time for everything. It is also not possible to make everyone happy. No matter what the issue/solution is, there will be some players satisfied with the outcome while another group of players will be upset. But to be completely honest it baffles me how some issues can be worked on and are given priority while issues that players brought up numerous times are not addressed.

Yes, I do complain occasionally on these forums, but I will still buy the expansion - perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised this time ...

none of this makes sense to me honestly. many people test all aspects of each expansion, especially the group content, as you need to be able to do all the group content to even do the raids lol.

just about everyone who beta tests do multiple copies of their character, name changing them. usually its your toon in its current armor and then you have a toon in the beta buffed gear etc. everyone plays both the group and raid content in both scenarios...so you claiming nobody tests stuff outside of "bragging rights" is simply false.

Every year i play beta, i see many players from all walks of EQ running around. I see many names posting in the beta forums about many issues found in regards to Items, Quests, NPCs, Difficulty.

your acting like old zones like CoTF are worthwhile at 110 lol. stop crying. if you wanna make a difference, log in to beta and do the content, make beta forum posts, talk with other people in the community and on beta. thats how it works. socialize about it....making QQ posts about an expansion that isnt even dropped yet comparing it to your 1 bad experience on a raid that prolly didnt even see developer tuning during beta lol /thumbsup.

There are groups of each of the top guilds that level up and do ALL group content during beta, on their own, in order to learn it. And they bug everything that isn't working.

Everyone can preorder the expansion and go test raids. Well before beta finishes all the prereqs are workable, and you can clear timers to get around flags. Guess what RoI did one year we barely tested anything? We did t1 raids...cleared lockouts...did t1 raids...cleared lockouts, etc, until flagged for t2. Repeat.

There is very little BALANCING feedback they take in stride in beta, unless it is blatant. They don't have the time and/or can't trust us (either cause people whine to whine, beg for harder, or just aren't seeing it in the right context without complete gear/aa that they will achieve before doing the content).

The fact you couldn't cut it in a top guild, so went back to a mid tier guild, that can't cut it, doesn't justify you whining about people that don't cop out and quit. And you do a disservice to all the mid tier guilds that are filled with people that WANT to progress and not have everything handed to them.

Level cap increases doesn't force people to buy the expac. No one is making you enter the new content. no one is making you level your toon.

For non raiders a level cap tents to open up many doors. those that struggle with stuff at 110 can level to 115 and then do the stuff they were having a hard time with.
Those that like to solo or do small groups of 2-3 a level cap offer them the chance to do more that they may not have been able to do before the level cap change.

Level cap vs non level cap does not change that stats. Yes were 5 level higher but the stats don't come from level they come from gear and if were 110 or 115 the gear is made with the stats they have set the level cap doesn't change that.

What the level cap does is move a group forward. If your currently out killing stuff that is light blue then yes those zones will be come out dated. But most people are fighting Yellow / white cons maybe some dark blue and adding 5 level will not prevent you from going to any 110 zone and still get exp.


As for your Vindi 2.0 it been posted in other post that the mechanic are getting only and the devs posted back that just saying something is getting old is not going to change it. If you feel the mechanics are getting old then how about you post some idea on new Mechanics.

Just say the next exp is going to suck and expecting it change is simply crazy. If you want to see change then do more then just QQ about it. offer suggestions on way to make it better.
O a this may shock you but Exp are not made over night. Often planing / design / coding takes time. yes they can make changes but for the most part I would say that 70+% of the exp is already completed and it the small details they are working on. Do you think stating this post now they are go to trash everything they done and start over? I sorry it not going to happen. If you want to make real change you need to be active voicing idea long before an exp is announce.

Your post is a Joke. As you said you changed your name so people don't know who you re to come make a QQ post.

...... how about your beta reward cactus hat..... lol .....hero forge rewards are the worst trash beta rewards

No one cares who finishes first on December 18, 2019.

Everyone involved cares who finishes first in February/March 2020, however...

I tend to think of the OP as a cautionary tale. When you stand too close to the fire, you're bound to get burned.

Try something more casual-friendly, friend. That, most decidedly, is not EverQuest.

Isn't this post a copy/paste of like two other posts you already made? I've read that raid leader anecdote a few too many times now.