PvP TLP: A Serious Look for DBG and Community

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Hexus, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. Machentoo Augur


    I was at times a predatory boxer. It was great to have my cleric tucked away hidden and healing my monk as he wrecked groups. Chardok was a lot of fun as my toons had faction, so the cleric could hide behind mobs safely.

    There were others. Linse comes immediately to mind, on Tallon Zek. He boxed very effectively to completely dominate the 8th coldain ring quest for many months during Velious and Luclin.

    Boxing was certainly not widespread back then, but it was prevalent, even on the pvp servers, even among aggressive pvpers.
  2. Numiko Augur

    Sam Deathwalker was an early mega boxer on the Zeks. and I recall naked wizard armies were a problem too... PvP servers were not as free of boxers as the OP implied.
    code-zero likes this.
  3. Hexus Journeyman

    I'm mainly referring to people boxing full groups or multiple groups for RMT purposes. RMT is probably the most common form of boxing unless you're a millionaire like this Sam guy was, boxing raids for fun (he eventually went to WoW).

    OOR healers were definitely relatively common back in the day and you just dealt with it by bringing guildies in that level range to deal with them.

    The population on every TLP has been much higher than any PvP server ever was I imagine. The amount of PvP griefing without any retaliation possible is way less likely than back in the day for a variety of reasons.

    If you're in a guild, or can use universal chat at least, I tend to think there will be more people around willing to combat any griefers.
    Brawl likes this.
  4. Hexus Journeyman

    I specifically brought up Sam. His army wasn't free of getting harrassed by PvPers either, his boxes would constantly get sniped really easily. He is an exception though, he didn't care about RMT as he was rich (inheritance or something). Most people with huge armies are going to be trying to make money, otherwise that's a lot of money out the window. So assuming they're trying to RMT, it's going to be very unproductive there versus other servers.

    Wizards were big problems before Manaburn was nerfed and when instant nukes came out in later expansions.

    They were definitely good too early, before all people got resists but all casters were.
  5. NameAlreadyInUse #CactusGate

    TLP is PVP, you just don't understand the meta.
    code-zero likes this.
  6. Machentoo Augur


    Obviously there were very few people boxing full groups or multiple groups back then. It was very costly to do, much more so than today. A $2000 computer could handle two, maybe three characters tops. I did know a couple guys who at timess ran six toons between them, but it wasn't common because most of us didn't want to shell out $6000 for computers.

    But not only was price an issue, it just wasn't necessary. There were very few things in the game that a skilled and motivated player playing two or three characters couldn't accomplish. Almost all the most popular group camps could be handled with less than a full group. Some of the raid content, too--eg the monk that solo'd Naggy, or the enchanter that regularly solo'd zlandicar. RMTers could get by just fine with three toons.
  7. code-zero Augur

    The devs recently said that if you want EQ PvP then get all your like minded friends to go play on Zek and prove it to them but unless that happens and Zek becomes a high pop server they won't even consider it
  8. Hexus Journeyman

    Already discussed, that is a nonsensical response by them for reasons pointed out already.
  9. code-zero Augur

    No matter what your feelings about the subject are if the devs tell you that is the only way they'll pay attention to your request I'd suggest that you pay attention to what they tell you.
  10. oldkracow 9999 Is the Krono Account Limit

    Why is it so hard to get the PvP community with it's thousands upon thousands of members to just log into a pvp server over the weekend and show DBG that there is a demand?

    I always hear that PvP has thousands of people waiting...:rolleyes:
    Nessirfiti, Meridian and code-zero like this.
  11. Scorrpio Augur

    20 years treating PvP as redheaded stepchild and you somehow hope a PvP to get lavished with special attention and 'creative tweaks'? Now that is laughable. I played on Rallos 1999-2001, back when dev team was called Verant and included devs actually keen on PvP. It was a cesspool already back then.
    TLPs are money-milking farms. Zero expense for new content/development - just flipping content switches once in a while. A PvP TLP would get exactly zero dev time and attention - that is a guaranteed. I read that Q&A too, general vibe is nobody on dev team gives a darn about PvP.
    And your main pitch about PvP serving to curtail RMT botters might in fact be a negative factor. TLPs are hotbeds of krono selling which is why those bot armies at worst get a minor slap on the wrist now and then. If bean counters figure that PvP would cause RMT crews to stay away, such server would never get a green light.
  12. JBizzle Journeyman

    /sing ".....thank you, next!"
  13. Hexus Journeyman

    I don't disagree with this, just wanted to give the benefit of the doubt in my post ;p

    As far as people talking about logging into Zek, what does that prove? Live PvP is an unbalanced joke now, damage is out of control. No one wants to play Live PvP, and to be fair, most people on TLPs don't want to play Live at all anyway, that's why you're on a TLP and not Live....

    Someone did point out there is an entire raiding guild red-tagged on Selo server, that proves more than a bunch of level 1s logging into a broken LIVE server.

    You're acting like there wasn't years worth of proven interest, during the relevant early eras that the TLPs are catering to for many people.

    All those people that played red aren't dead, and there aren't any really good MMORPGs out atm so I imagine many would come check it out that haven't even bothered to check out these current recycled TLPs yet.

    As I've tried to point out, I also think there are more middle of the road/non-hardcore people that would still be interested for various reasons,
    some that I brought up, than people give credit for.

    Again current Live Zek has nothing to do with anything. All the people I know that loved playing on red servers would never go play on Live Zek because it's unbelievably unbalanced, many things simply broken, and pointless.

    It's like telling me to go convince more people to play on Firiona Vie in order to prove there is interest in a P99 classic velious server.

    I really don't think people are appreciating how little the current Live game has to do with earlier expansions, and how that fact is completely compounded with PvP.

    Live Zek might as well be closed down, no idea why it hasn't been yet.
    Brawl likes this.
  14. Waring_McMarrin Augur


    It would go to proving that there is an actual interest in a pvp tlp server as right now the pvp server is pretty much dead from what I hear. As for pvp being unbalanced in live I would guess you will have the exact same problems on a pvp tlp server as it is mostly a copy of live which means a lot of the problems on live would still be there on the tlp server.
    code-zero likes this.
  15. Hexus Journeyman

    I'm aware some people believe playing on Live PvP with Rallos Zek ruleset would prove interest in a PvP TLP. You're not wrong that it would show a general interest in PvP.

    What I'm failing to get across is it's also not correct to think that because we don't play on Live Zek, that means we're not interested in a PvP TLP at all because they're not even close to the same thing.

    Thinking that Live Everquest is the same as early because they share code is just false. The game goes through incremental transformations as you progress into later expansions with new and more powerful spells, AAs, discs, etc. This should be common sense I don't know why it's necessary to even point this out...

    Dealing with some imbalance in early expansions was bearable but as the game scales the imbalance obviously gets worse and the developers did nothing to curb it yet they want to blame us for not sticking around...

    No one is asking for a Live PvP server, that is a lost cause. A PvP TLP can work, has its merits, and people would be interested.
    Brawl likes this.
  16. Trox2010 Augur

    One issue with that line of thought though is that implies everyone on FV is there because of the FV ruleset (namely almost all gear is tradable); when in actuality that is not the case. Everyone I know that rolled onto FV did so because of the higher XP modifier there, and really didn't care one way or the other on almost all gear being tradable. In the end it could be argued the only reason why FV is at High Pop is because of the faster XP rate (which is also proven with Mangler having such high pop after they fixed the rates).
  17. Hexus Journeyman

    I don't know that it's "proven" but you won't get an argument from me about FV ruleset. I have characters there myself and I don't really care about the droppable loot thing. I don't know that to be true for everyone though. I'm not here arguing on behalf of it either way.

    I simply don't believe they are being genuine using the low population on Zek as the sole reason for not considering a PvP TLP. They know they ignored balance, ignored rampant active hacks for the longest time, never upgraded PvP gear after implementing it initially, never fixed the PvP leaderboard, etc.

    Ghost kill hack was running rampant on Zek for the longest time. I once saw one monk wipe out most of a raid force using ghost kill hack.

    I had to deal with an entire guild using all kinds of active hacks like warping, no delay spammable heal potions, etc. These guys were constantly reported but nothing done because they ignored the server.

    There were class spell issues that went unfixed forever. Again, ignoring the server.

    All these issues at the time made the attrition rate go sky high. Not to mention they merged what, 4 servers into one? The attrition rate on those singular servers was already really high, so one could argue too little too late.

    When we all merged to Zek it was still lower population than any blue server and when you merged all the hackers into one server while ignoring them, attrition only got worse.

    The situation is very different today. There is no way people would get away with that amount of active hacking on a TLP like they did in the past for so long on the Zeks. People get banned so quickly relative to back then just for things like warping.

    Ghost killing doesn't even work anymore but people got away with that crazy stuff for a long time.

    You can't simply ignore all the history of indifference and incompetence when it comes to the Zek servers and just say, "Well no one plays on Zek anymore, guess no one would like a PvP TLP then."
    Brawl likes this.
  18. Brunlin Augur

    I would love to see a PVP Tlp...Hell, Ill settle for a PVP Event server.....anything non-carebear. I would love to hear the shorties in ooc "Gno-Mercy!!" Brings back memories.
    Brawl and Hexus like this.
  19. Hexus Journeyman

    Lol did you play on tallon or vallon?
  20. Nessirfiti Augur

    I'd like to see a PVP TLP server so we stop having these threads pop up. And it wouldn't take away from the population of the other TLPs at all. I mean, who's going to notice four people leaving a server?