Do not raise level cap

Sorry, perhaps I needed to be more specific.

The sustainability question is for the integrity and the validity of the beta process.

The game will go on regardless, that much is true.

Except they’re not really even beta testing anymore, it’s just a pre-launch demo for those that have preordered. An actual beta would be happening about this time of year for the upcoming November-December release.

Maybe not just a demo but the beta is really not much more than a last minute check for bugs/broken mechanics at this point. The content is set in stone as far as what the nuts and bolts of release will be and the initial difficulty level.

The Dev team has established a defacto routine of proceeding from there with a release, allowing RoI and their kind to best it all, and then making adjustments when things stagnate for everyone else or the top guilds reveal glaring game balance issues once they fully kit out.

The same logic can be applied to monthly updates. We have a test server that everyone can participate on. If you don't bother testing the updates don't bother complaining about the outcome.

Everyone knows the real beta is the first couple months post launch just like the real test is the first week after it goes live. Not saying things don't get tested but it isn't until things go live that they get tested by the masses.

Sure there is beta, however there can be problem, if those that call for harder stuff, overwhelmes those that call for normal hardness. And in last 2 expansions the first ones overwhelmed the others

I think that's part of the problem. If after 20 years the developers haven't figured out how to tune new content properly that's on them not the players. Beta should be more about finding bugs, potential exploits, and giving overall feedback on the content and features. The developers already know what player powers are and what the npc powers are. This part should be balanced and scale in difficulty as we progress through the content. It should require very little player input by now. Customers should not be expected to spend a month every year testing a product they pay for just to make sure said product that they paid for is actually playable from a difficulty standpoint.

I enjoyed EoK. RoS was ok. And no not even mediocre groups were one shotting the hardest stuff upon release. Not even close. We remember things very differently. Unless you are talking about raid geared players then I guess that is possible.

And if you have gone into beta and complained the content is too hard DBG is the problem. And let's face it group players aren't organized to push their agenda. Plus nothing stops devs from updating content after release. I can live with a few weeks of too hard to get something balanced.

But I guess as you say the real reason group content is overtuned is that the majority top raid guilds are screaming to make the content harder. Going to take a awful lot of casual players to offset that if true.

This post hit the nail right on the head.


The top raid guilds all participate in beta to learn the raids as soon as possible so they can be first out the gate when the expansion comes out. Yes they bug test the stuff but it would be silly to say that the main agenda of those top guilds wasn't to get a leg up and be ready to be game first on beating raid content. Their standing among raid guilds are a bit draw for recruitment for them. So raiders berating casual players for not doing beta is silly. TWENTY years of everquest and they STILL cannot balance group content?

I don't think the majority of group players are out there measuring their measuring "how big" their game appendage is. Group players are overall more laid back and just want to enjoy the game. AND they want to experience the content when the expansion comes out not get an advance prev

Well you see this is the issue. There are too many players that don’t play anywhere near the peak of their actual power. I personally don’t believe things are really that overtuned if you consider they are tuning toward what the actual player power is vs. what players are actually playing at. So how do you tune for that? If MORE people participated in beta they could get a better overall idea of where things should be based on overall skill level. Which yes then there will still be people that think everything is too hard or too easy but it would be more of a middle ground. I will agree they do need to work on tier difficulties being placed in correct order t1 should not be harder than t2 content

there is a easy way to fix that issue. make the next exp 3 tears of levels.

level 1 setup for easy playing people who don't want to work to hard to play and take it real easy.
level 2 setup for the middle of the road people.
level 3. setup for those who play their char at the peak of their power.

Now granted you get the people who fall in to the 1st or 2nd level range that will whin and complain that that its not fair that they can't handle the 3rd level and get the best group gear. Easy answer for that you want the best group gear then you have to work for it not going hand you the gear for doing nothing. I mean right now gmm has the best non vis group gear in the game and its a cake walk to get.

How about following WoWs lead and implementing a level decrease?

I think as the game has aged and more abilities have been added they try to over complicate things. There are four fundamental functions being tanking, healing, dps, and crowd control/pulling. Entry zones should be fundamental in nature without crazy over the top mob abilities and camps where you have to try and split or pull from a dozen mobs or ask a tank to stay standing up against more than 2-3 mobs. Added tiers should require more skill in all 4 areas as players advance. That should be the natural progression of an expansion imo. I think there is a reason the TLP servers are so successful and its because of these fundamentals.

Now I've been a part of the past 12 beta's.. talking to an working with dev's on both the group quests as well as the raid aspect ..

Since when have they ever had beta testing in the summer ?

Every single beta I've ever been apart of has always been the month prior to launch.. which has always been in the winter..

You are literally losing credibility with silly posts like this.

I'm talking about mediocre group geared players.

I'm not talking about teh s u c k players..

What guild are you in ?

We actually have no idea what they are trying to tune the group game to. And I can honestly tell you they are not looking at what the best player can do and trying to tune to that. They simply are not that dumb. I mean wouldn't you think they would have realized that by now and then tuned things down to a lower average difficulty?

I think it is less about group players not beta testing then it is about raid players wanting everything harder. They have to beta test. Do raid guilds still make it mandatory to attend beta raids? Or at least strongly encourage it?

Even if everyone in beta was pushing for harder group content by now they would have noticed that the player population as a whole always thinks that is overtuned. Didn't Einstien say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results? So maybe they should stop doing the same thing over and over. *shrugs*

And when they actually tune things to the majority of group players there is a massive cry out from some of the hardcore group players and raiders that its all EASY MODE.

I am not sure the devs even try to balance everything the same way each expansion which is probably part of the problem. They go from well balanced too overtuned back and forth. And maybe that is intentional and they figure they are alternatively pleasing different groups of players with each expansion. I just feel they need to find a happy middle ground at some point.

Then I completely disagree with you. EOK and ROS were not undertuned for mediocre group players.

I swear .. reading some of these posts ..

Its like they are trying to romanticize EoK / RoS ..

Both those expansions were easy mode. TBL was hard mode because you guys who are crying ACTUALLY .. had to be smart and could not merc heal your way threw content.. (OH NOZ)

I for 1 .. hope that Next expansion each zone is locked behind partisan, mercenary and hero .. of the zone prior .. no campfire in for anyone .. and no clicky based travel system (like the djinn lamp)

I hope that there is a hell level that we have to push HARD on to get threw ..

I hope merc's (all mercs) are 1 shotted on new content by trash even..

I hope that there is at LEAST a challenge for the top tier player .. an not just a water'd down group content that my cat could login an pass threw with merc assistance.

Yall try to claim the harder players have all the raid system to play with that they dont really need the group countent.

Yall forget to mention.. Raiding is a choice and a chance ..

Choice to raid is yours ..

Chance to raid is the guild's leader's choice to give you a chance .. If you s u ck .. bye bye .. if you lack the ability to comprehend what you are being told .. bye bye .. If you lack the ability to stay alive .. bye bye ..

Raiding is both a choice and a chance..

Grouping is thee only aspect open to all with or with out choice or chance..

Please dev's make it a challange.

You’re literally describing a demo with some minor player feedback. Have you never done an actual beta test? The actual ones that matter are held several months from launch. Devs need months to work on this stuff. It’s why I pointed out that an actual beta test would need to be occurring during June-July for a December release. We all know that Everquest has historically rushed expansion releases starting with 6 month cycles to yearly but should probably be 18 months.