The experience group dilema

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Canloe Nusback, May 26, 2019.

  1. Canloe Nusback New Member

    Today there are game mechanics that hardly can motivate players to build
    experience groups with other players. Most players are unhappy with this situation
    as these mechanics turned a previously healthy MMO into a single player game
    with MMO elements. Why is that ? Here are some facts and possible solutions:

    ======================================================================

    1. Instead to build groups with other players, players prefer to play alone by puttingt their mercs
    and alts into the group to get all the loot and experience for themself. No conflicts about loot,
    playstyles and other things with other players can happen.

    Solution:
    Mercs should gain experience even when being deactivated. Basically merc experience should
    not be dependent on having hired a merc at all and purely based on character level experience.
    It could be automatically 10% of level/AA experience and going up to 100% level epxerience
    when the character does reach its current level cap.

    Think about limiting boxing to two accounts or make all servers true box servers like it was in the
    old days. Another interesting option would be to limit the amount of mercs to one or even zero
    inside groups dependent on the amount of player characters. Mercs should only be an option for
    solo players. Groups with more than one player character should deny mercenaries.

    So players that still want to box with mercs cannot benefit much from the grp exp bonus and
    have to build separate small groups (1 PC + 1 merc per grp). Lets say two or more player
    characters want to form a group: This would only work if they do not have an active merc.
    This would especially create a demand for healer classes and would motivate players to build
    real multiplayer groups (again).

    ======================================================================

    2. Mercenaries have to be active to gain experience and occupy a group slot

    Solution:
    See above.

    ======================================================================

    3. Inside a group lower level characters receice way to much experience as characters of a
    higher level even that higher level characters do benefit a group alot more usually. Maybe this is
    not mathematically correct (total and/or percentual) but its like driving with an activated hand
    brake for the higher level character while the lower level character receives a big boost.
    This is nice to level alts (by boxing multiple accounts) and other low level characters but most
    players just won´t build a group with characters that have a (much) lower level than their own
    character(s). Its seems like the total amount of experience that a defeated mob does grant
    (experience pool) currently just does get divided by the amount of characters in the group,
    including mercs.

    Solution:
    Create a better and more precise formula for experience share calculation.
    Character power based on their level and maybe even other factors like HP should have more
    influence or influence at all. It should not be a negative experience to build a team with lower
    level characters. Instead every character should benefit from the group experience bonus and to
    be in a group. In other words grouping should be ALWAYS more rewarding than playing
    solo / molo.

    ======================================================================

    4. Making mobs alot stronger with every new expansion and thinking that this will motivate
    players to build real multiplayer groups has failed since many years. When the apple does
    hang to high on the tree, players will just quit the game or stay back more or less unhappy
    within old content.

    Solution:
    Make mobs easier (less mob dps) like it was in the vanilla years with expansions like
    Scars of Velious and Shadows of Luclin where limited soloing was possible for alot classes
    (no mercs existed !) but very challenging without twink gear and mostly not as rewarding as
    being in an experience group.
  2. svann Augur

    I stopped reading at #1 because your solution to #1 is irrelevant to the actual stated problem #1.
    Endaar, Whulfgar and Sancus like this.
  3. Lisard Silly

  4. Mehdisin Mahn Augur

    sir, please return to the meme thread immediately. your presence in this troll post is neither warranted nor desired =P
  5. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    I've been in full guild groups since TBL has been out, we occasionally have to use a healer merc when there are none on line, but grab a real one as soon as they become available.

    Groups are a round, you just need to make friends, play well and not ninja AFK.

    4. will not help, if anything it will make your situation worse as those grouping now will be soloing or moloing with mercs.
  6. Warpeace Augur

    So, having problems getting a group huh?

    Not seeing anything here to actually help a person find a group. All I'm seeing is how mercs or boxed toons are taking spaces away from someone getting a possible group. This is assuming the person trying to get a group is better than a merc or boxed toon to begin with.
    Nifty Slacker, Shanarias and CatsPaws like this.
  7. Petalonyx Augur

    Agree that merc exp is an issue. Mercs are strong, and their merc AA make a substantial difference in what you can and cannot do.

    Since I like tackling difficult content in TBL, I feel Iless inclined to invite real players that stall my merc progression. I still do invite others pretty much at any opportunity because I enjoy their company and like helping people out, but I cannot deny that current merc progression mechanics make this hard.

    I think merc AA progression would be better if 1) there was some level of autogrant, and 2) mercs not in group rcvd 25-50% of the exp they'd normally get while in a group.

    Autogrant helps close that entry barrier a tad. The out-of-grp exp helps motivate people to admit players in grps, while still retaining the option of focusing on late-game merc progression.
  8. Aurastrider Augur

    No thank you. I enjoy boxing and so do a lot of players on live server and TLP for that matter. We have already invested a lot of time and money into our accounts and don't need it wasted because people want more groups. This "solution" wont create more groups it will just create less players as people will literally quit the game rather than conform to this TLP true box mindset. If you want a live server with truebox just wait for Selo to catch live and you will have it assuming they keep it in place. You will also have the added bonus of increased rare spawns. I am all for solutions to increasing groups but not at the cost of destroying how others like myself enjoy playing EQ. Come up with a more creative solution that does not come at the expense of other players and I might support this solution.
    CatsPaws and Yinla like this.
  9. Raccoo Augur

    Add a toggle to give XP to mercs instead of regular XP or AAs for player. In my case I'm full AA/reg XP, but my merc is really lagged behind on AAs.
  10. Allayna Augur

  11. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    End Mercenary Tenure Today!

    Seriously, if I want a group right now, I can get a group right now. I choose to box most of the time because of my hectic life. I can get up and walk away any time I see fit without detriment to anyone. And the six accounts I pay for help keep the game running.

    There are times when I'll bring someone else into my group, or take a single toon and group with someone else. But that depends a LOT on whom needs the help.
    BadPallyGuildLeader likes this.
  12. Whulfgar Augur

    Yet another tired .. I dont want people to box .. thread cause they wont let me play with them..

    Its already been firmly established you take boxing out of eq and eq will be deserted ..

    160 people on 5 servers I know personally.. 1 of which does not box at all most box3 or more ..

    If you like eq and want it to stick round as long as possible.. then you sir have to learn to live with boxers .. or move to a no box server yourself..
  13. Skalde Elder

    Mercs are extremely weak at higher levels, they don't have useful aa's persay and the gear is junk.
  14. Natal Augur

    The OP has a major misconception about the use of mercs and alts. People don't use these because they cant get groups, they use them because the don't WANT a group. They want to play at their own pace, when they want to and doing what they want to. Which generally you can't do with other people around.

    Marcs and alts are not your problem. The people who run them would not group with you anyway, because they don't want to (for various reasons, none of which have anything to do with you personally).
  15. Canloe Nusback New Member

    Thanks for your replies. My solutions are just possible solutions and they can be combined
    variously. Converting all servers into true box servers might not be the best idea but it still is
    something to consider. Some of you cleary stated that its nothing you want to have and you
    brought up good arguments. I am boxing myself pretty often and I did not made this post
    because I cannot find a group. All I did was analyzing the current state of the game and
    players behaviour.

    I disagree in one point with you and this is that players are boxing and using mercs
    because they want to play alone. Sorry, but you are playing an MMO, so im pretty sure that
    your first intention to play EQ was to play together with other people and getting
    confrontated with them. Thanks Natal for bringing this aspect up. You are telling us that
    people do not want groups and brought up a major issue. This is really crazy as people
    play an MMO with the intention to play alone there. If this is really the case there is no
    solution to cure EQ from the boxing and merc phenomenon. For sure you do not notice an
    issue at all then. Players want to play alone so just let them play alone ! This is fine with me.

    My general point of view is that every action is based on motivation. My motivation for this
    thread is to initiate some changes by bringing up things that I consider as basic issues.
    So there is a motivation that people prefer to play alone instead to build groups with other
    players. In the very past the majority of players was motivated to play in groups instead to
    play alone. So what has changed and motivated them to a different behaviour ?

    Have the players changed ?
    Have game mechanics changed ?
    Has something else changed ?

    I think its a mix of all as there was no mercs and only little boxing in the past while on the
    other side players grew older and their life situation has changed drastically. Family, work,
    less time, more stress. You already named such things. It seems like older people are also
    less active, less communicative, less social and prefer to play alone more. o_O

    As real life sure has the biggest influence there is a second major factor and these are the
    game mechanics. While its hardly possible to change real life much it is possible to change
    the game mechanics and with them the motivation factors for player behaviour.
    Not every EQ player wants to play alone with a pseudo group consisting of alts and mercs.
    Instead they prefer a classic group with mixed players and I am not writing about myself.
    My analyses show me that there are just not enough motivation factors (like rewards) to
    encourage players to build classic groups. This can get changed and I showed up some
    possible solutions.

    Its totally fine for loners, egoists and "I do not have much time to play" people to play this
    game alone but keep one thing in mind: EverQuest was never made for you !

    You've ruined your own lands! You'll not ruin mine!
  16. Moege Augur

    Post a link where this was said, you are just trolling for attention.
  17. Mintalie Augur

    I'm dying to know what OP's native language is.
  18. Canloe Nusback New Member

    Its dwarvish.
    Its you who is trolling for attention as you want to me to link my own words.
  19. Ryino Elder

    Uhhh are you sure you have met people in EQ, you just described like 80% of them. They have also had solo classes since the beginning, just because it is a massive world with tons of players doesn't mean you have to interact with them.

    Punishing every other type of gameplay that isn't yours in the hopes that it will lead people to play your way is kind of a non starter. If you want to play true box there are servers for that, but it seems that the vast majority of people don't want that restriction so why impose it on everybody?

    Grouping hasn't been an issue that I have seen so far in TBL. I think the difficulty curve was pretty high for this so it already put the hurt on some boxers and gave people more content to do so they are playing later into the season. It might be that you are on a lower population server, but if that's the case it is probably better to transfer to one with more people.
  20. Moege Augur

    So you make a claim and now stating as fact that EQ was made only for grouping player backed up by you own words ... Yeah no, /ignore.
    Shanarias likes this.