My aggro bind usually was Crush Crush Brilliant Consecration alternate my 3 and 4 key (HOTT key) so my actual cast order was more Crush Valiant Crush Brilliant Valiant Consecration (I'd throw Honor in here now, but it still sucked last time I played) Valiant Sometimes I'd use more of the undead nukes (all of them at times) If I needed to twin heal I skip tapping 4. The ability to control the twin heal when needed massively helps your ability to splash and also control the influx of self healing and use things like protective or censure in either a proactive or reactive way based on the influx of damage. When you cast Aurora are you getting heals that would otherwise be missed for teammates? Or could you avoid casting all together and they be topped off by alliance, priest group heals, or sham rain heals? Without trying to debate the finer points of raid healing, basically if you dont cast Aurora will someone die? If so then cast, if not, are you stealing heal #s from a priest who may be more suited to the job? I cant judge that from here so that's up to you and is highly dependent on raid team make up. Certain events I'd have to spam Aurora, but that was pretty rare outside of split raiding or goofy shenanigans from mechanics. If the heals are critical twin casting a Wave may be a better use of a twin heal opportunity (since Aurora cannot twin) and mana. The targeted heals like burst can be better controlled if you have your group mates easily targetable via keybinds the F key defaults are sub optimal IMO. Also I found having my group UI bar in a horizontal orientation as opposed to the vertical stack massively helps. I put it center screen like that so of any bar moves I can react far easier. Personally I have a slight recognition delay when the bar is vertical since reading all the HP bars left to right in a single line just seems easier to me. Anyway I'll expand on this later I have to get ready for work.
I don’t think I’ve loaded a spell set with crush in all of TBL. The stun aggro is sufficient to maintain aggro and depending on where in my lineup I run valiant will depend how many adds on raids I’ll be tanking. Stuns > Crush for survival and many HTT type spells (admonish/censure/dissident etc) as opposed to targeted or a bunch from the grief line... I run a 6 gem spam and find that I take aggro from warriors and survive raid tanking some of the heaviest hitters in the expansion better than warriors. (Self healing vs lower avg hit). I like the utility that HTT provides as it can pad the MT or self heal in the event the MT dies. I’m still a bit old fashioned and have brilliant saved for twin splash.
Since Refute is now instant cast, I place it first on my spam key with FoD 2nd. They fire together instantly then I follow with Crush of Tim Deep. Then I go into my 3 pass thru heal spells with FoD in between as it refreshes.
So you dont load a single spell of the Expiation line? I suppose I could see where the rate of combat has gotten to the pace where HOTT heals have completely replaced the large long recast self heals that traditionally were one of the best emergency heals. Though I think I'd still load the current one, that lay hands every 90s is just very powerful.
It depends on the event really, but I prefer to have more AE healing loaded or at least more split utility than single utility. I can handle sustained damage while tanking and look at it like this, if I’m spiking it’s due to a healer death or AE damage to the raid, so I’ll hit GoL, GAoTI/1st if I need it.
You do that on raid bosses you aren’t tanking? Your warriors must hate you. Your dps must hate you for wasting a debuff slot. Refute is amazing with the focus AA and I like it as a snap key for if a squishy class is getting beat on by a mephit for instance.
If you're first to tag, then Refute should not be your first spell as it lacks hate override. FoD then Refute would be better instant aggro.
Would you mind explaining Hate override? Just the pass thru heals when I'm not tanking. And DPS will be ok with one debuff that helps me aggro.
I think their point was if you arent tanking it you do not need aggro, you have no fail taunts and an aggro lock if the main tank goes down and you are back up. Using up a spell slot that can produce a substantial amount of dps by another class is disadvantageous for your entire raid team. Your choice, but it's not very courteous or respectful to your teammates to waste buff slots needlessly.
Sorry I read like an idiot. Hate overrides are a specific type of ability that has a defined hate amount that is controlled. Traditionally there was an initial aggro cap of 1200 or so, and the only initial action that could exceed that had to have a hate override. Currently though I dont believe the initial aggro cap is in effect and so what you are doing isnt a problem. This can be demonstrated by having 2 characters do something that generates hate pretty easily. Or atleast it doesnt seem to apply to +hate abilities like refute or valiant, I didnt test other abilities. Example: if I pull a mob with valiant, if the initial aggro cap still worked I'd produce a total of 1200 hate. I had an SK use their lowest terror that is greater than 1200 but less hate then valiant (discord level 66 I believe) he should have taken aggro from me. That wasnt the case, tried that in a handful of zones with us the same distance away from mobs so proximity aggro modifiers should have been roughly equal. That was back in EOK, not sure if when they fixed pass through heals if that got fixed, but anyway. I'd be interested if anyone has a recent example of initial aggro cap in re Refute ruining their day actually.
Valiant and Refute are probably not good spells to test initial aggro cap. The valiant healing has a hate mod. Refute has a hate over time component. [57901] Valiant Healing III Caza Mana: 10 Target: Targets Target Range: 300' Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes Focusable: Yes Casting: 0s Hate Mod: +2873 1: Increase Current HP by 12972 There are other contributing factors, attack on or off, gift of hemofax up or not on your SK...etc.
Absolutely right I'll repeat with a wizard with SCS turned off because now I am curious. Though it appears there were some changes made since those tests (we were pretty thorough and conducted them with a CRT that forwarded the info to devs). So I'll repeat them for and giggies.
Hate Override and Hate Mod are spdata fields that are separate from SPA and from each other. Hate Override (EQResource name) was used (if not introduced) as part of the Stun vs HP hate calculation revamp done many years ago (circa Oct 2005). Among the first stuns to get this value were the Ancient stuns from GoD and OoW. This applies an absolute amount of hate even if it is the very first source of hate on an NPC. Spells and abilities with this field are designed to be your first, best NPC tagging tools. E.g. Force of Disruption, Divine Call, Heroic Leap II, crushes, stuns, audacity, beacon, lodestar. Allakhazam/Lucy call this field "hateamount" displayed as "Hate Generated". Raidloot calls it simply "Hate". Hate Mod (EQResource and Raidloot name) applies a relative amount of hate. It can be positive or negative. It's used to modify the total initial hate of many spells and abilities and the total can go negative (like a jolt). Valiant Healing has a positive value while Censure and Censure Heal both have negative values. Allakhazam/Lucy call this field "bonushate" (not displayed). There are also SPA that apply hate. For this discussion we care about: 92 - Hate (on spell land), e.g. Refute for Honor, Valiant Defense, Harmonious Illumination 192 - Hate (duration), e.g. Refute for Honor, Sanctimonious Audacity, Beacon, Lodestar Often times Hate Override is used instead of SPA 92. SPA 92 seems to be the modern form and may share the same override logic (as Chaosflux infers). I think it interesting that Audacity uses hate override while Refute uses SPA 92. To me it means that Audacity is designed to tag (and debuff magic) first, whereas Refute is not. The only examples I find where both fields are used together are Beacon and Lodestar, which have SPA 92 values of 1 (overridden?), so I think SPA 92 doesn't apply as an override.
Thinking about this some more. It's possible that the initial hate cap is still in play but it's not the final calculation anymore and some or all modifiers apply after the initial hate is capped. The modifiers could be Hate Mod field and/or one of these SPA: 114 - Modify Hate (e.g. Preservation, Echo of Anger) 130 - Fc_HateMod (e.g. Furious Bash, Warlord's Fury, Glyph of Angry Thoughts) It can be tested because a hate override spell will generate uncapped hate, while another spell would not, even though both are then modified to be over the cap (i.e. apx 1200) in the final result. Imagine two spells, one with 2000 hate override and the other with 2000 hate (SPA 92) or equivalent. Tagging might compute like this (speculative): Total over = (2000ovr + Hate Mod) * (SPA 114 + SPA 130) Total cap = (1200cap + Hate Mod) * (SPA 114 + SPA 130) In either case, the total hate could be over "the cap". How much over the cap the total is depends on when the cap is applied. In my example, I apply it to the initial hate from the spell effect before any modifiers. However it could be applied after Hate Mod summation or later, or the cap could have been removed. Testing would be able to figure out if hate override is still a thing.
