What Daybreak misses regarding the group game

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Corwyhn Lionheart, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    You can divide EQ players all sorts of ways but one of the most common is raider versus group player. There was a time a portion of the group players weren't raiders ONLY because of the time commitments but that group has shrunk a lot as even raid guilds become less hard core.

    This is just my opinion based upon my own observations but I think that for a variety of reasons (lack of time, wanting to play to relax not for an adrenaline spike etc) really prefer less Gcomplicated content then you get in raids.

    The evidence in this is how successful GMM is. Players on the group side don't want missions that are miniature versions of raids. Sure raid players love it. They raid they intentionally play content that has always been more complicated. To them it is no big deal. But DBG you need to realize most group type players don't want complicated. They want a straight up fight not a bug hunt. Personally, I don't want to count AOE timers, watch for emotes, get GINA triggers from raiders. Give me a straight up fight most of the time with a small amount of more complicated stuff. The majority of groupers will happily plow through that stuff in my opinion.

    Now I know there will be those who seriously disagree, especially raiders. I mean they flock to raiding for the more complicated raiding type content of course they would love the same thing in the group side of the game. And I guess that is fine if you just want to hold on to your
    raiders.

    And hey people are free to disagree with me. It's all about opinions. I can't claim to know all of the group game and all of the group players but having run a casual guild for over 19 years I think I know a bit of what casual players (casual due to time OR how hard they push themselves in the game) are looking for. Even there though I will acknowledge you do get some group players that love complexity in encounters/missions.

    The group game should be the opposite of raids. It shouldn't require ideal group set ups, should be doable by player and merc combos, I think basic content should be part way between TBL and GMM with small amounts of content dedicated to those above and below that line. Just my opinion.
  2. Yendar Augur

    This is for people that want to straight up EXP. it’s fun while you’re accumulating all your new AA’s sure. Nobody keeps doing gribbles once they max AA’s. This is the same concept.

    Those other missions are fun for people with max exp that don’t want to needlessly kill trash mobs over and over. People that want exp don’t want to do those types of tasks because they’re very little exp.

    I don’t think it has much to do with raiders vs groupers at all.
  3. BadPallyGuildLeader Augur

    I understand your concern. It's made worse by the dearth of web based GOOD writeups on stuff. All sorts of stuff is just "known" nowadays through passing of information from player to player directly versus Allakazam or Eqresource.
  4. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Right most people don't do the tricky content over and over. They do the basic content over and over. I guess playability is another way to look at it.

    I think stuff can be interesting without being overly complicated. The average casual group is usually not maxed aa so they will happily play grinding type content a lot.
    Yinla likes this.
  5. Yendar Augur

    I think a large portion of EQ’s player base is max exp. I also think a large portion of their player base stops doing a lot of repeatable group content once they reach max exp. A significant portion actually stop playing until a new expansion is released.

    EQ is better off catering to those players. The reason is, if not they won’t have ANYTHING to do & will quit. The “casual” players are able to do other content they’ve missed to help catch up.
  6. Yinla Ye Ol' Dragon

    My routine for the last couple of weeks has been
    1. Fight Fire in Stratos - for wizzy - this may get dropped as I just got my final evolve item to drop, so will depend if anyone still needs.
    2. Darkness Howls in Gnome Mountain - for Shammy - purely for the AA
    3. Darkness Howls in Gnome Mountain - for Beastlord - purely for the AA

    We do Iron out the Legion quest every so often for a change, but it depends as I have a few friends who get lost moving up to the furnace area, just wish the 2 missions weren't linked.

    After that I'll do something else productive, tradeskills, EoK or RoS hunter for the wizzy.

    The easy stuff is fun and relaxing, I'd take that any day of the week over more complex stuff when I am relaxing and doing group stuff.

    A couple of the guys I play with are already max AA, they want the extra AA for the high priced Glyths. :)
    Gyurika Godofwar likes this.
  7. Yendar Augur

    They run fight fire, and darkness howls to exp for glyphs to use on fight fire and darkness howls? Or do they want glyphs because there is tougher content they’re needed on? Thanks for proving my point. If they didn’t have that tougher content then they wouldn’t want glyphs and wouldn’t run the mission with you. They’re using the mission for easy exp, just like the people catching up on AA’s. After that’s done, they won’t do it.
  8. Cicelee Augur

    You use glyphs on raids. And they cost a lot of AA. And you use glyphs weekly on raids. So you need to replenish the AA...
  9. Yendar Augur



    This post is about group game, catering more to casual players.. and dedicating most of its to content similar to GMM.

    raiders using glyphs isn't really on topic at all, again you're proving my point.

    Not to mention you don't need an expansion full of missions to exp to replenish your glyphs. 1 or 2 missions is plenty. You can even do it in a static zone (or while you farm power sources), while you're doing hunters, farming your collects etc.

    The players referred to in this thread don't need glyphs. After they get their max exp they start playing less (create/exp an alt), or quit (sometimes they come back next expansion).

    Having things that are difficult keeps people challenged and they have goals they haven't obtained. Those players may not be able to do TBL now.. fine, but they couldn't do RoS/Eok before either.. so they're able to work on RoS/EoK stuff. Next expansion they'll feel accomplished when they finally beat the smoke trials that they had to wait a year to beat.
  10. Cicelee Augur

    In the prior post you had, your last sentence was something to the effect of "After that is done, they will stop doing it".

    The problem with that statement is that a raider will always want/need to replenish their AA for glyphs. So they will never stop doing it after they use their glyphs, they will continue to do fast and easy AA for continually using glyphs.
    Gyurika Godofwar, Barton and Yinla like this.
  11. Yendar Augur

    Again, you're off topic, this post isn't about raiders, or people needing glyphs for more difficult content. We could just create a zone with mobs that had half as much HP and 10X as much exp too for the raiders since you want to complain about how expensive glyphs are. The easier the AAs are to obtain the less expensive the glyphs are. They've become so much less expensive and you're still complaining about grinding the AA.
  12. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Yeah and daybreak will do real well once all the casual players give up buying expansions because you want them to do last years content all the time.
    Barton likes this.
  13. gotwar Gotcharms

    We can have both. You don't have to alienate either side.

    The EOK formula seemed extremely popular - one or two easily accessible entry-level zones with some squishy quest progression and maybe a straightforward mission. Then some more difficult stuff after that.

    Frankly, I'd like an even greater increase in difficulty at the "end-of-expansion" point. TBL was a great nod to this, with a couple challenging missions sprinkled throughout. It'd be wonderful if there was a thing or two at the high-end of each expansion that top-tier players didn't just faceroll through without trying.

    On the other end of things, I do think expansions need a Frontier Mountains. A little something for everyone. I generally think it's easier to keep "casual" players content - the longevity of DH HAs and Frontier Mountain facegrinds should attest to that. There's no reason not to include something like this with each expansion.

    Something something massive skill gap... one of these days I'll write that post.
  14. Brohg Augur

    OP appears to be arguing that anything beyond that level should be in raids only
    gotwar and Sancus like this.
  15. Aurastrider Augur

    I think most casuals and hardcore players would be happy with this and I think DBG would be too when they see more expansion sales. Its important to have content that's inclusive especially in the group game. Casuals often times are big spenders and have no problem dropping cash on things as long as they feel it's worth the money. A lot of us are successful in RL but lack the free time needed to keep up with the RL and EQ grind. DBG would be wise to keep us around because we have money to burn and lots of options to spend it on. Exclude us as customers and casuals will find something else to throw their money at.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  16. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    No not anything. But most group content should not be like mini raids in my opinion. Not saying an expansion has to be all FM. I think there is lots of room in between where the content would be best done.
  17. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    There's a simple reason why many group missions and raids start with the same thing. It takes a lot of time and effort to create them. If they have some things the same, it cuts down on the work. It's the same reason a lot of modern zones are older zones repurposed.

    Daybreak just doesn't have the people to do everything.
  18. Corwyhn Lionheart Guild Leader, Lions of the Heart

    Its not hard you just leave out some of the mechanics out of the group game that would be in the raid one.
    Barton likes this.
  19. Littlelegs Elder

    These threads feel so reductive to me in regards to the complexity of the player base. The conversation often starts and/or breaks down into a binary choice: raid vs. group, hardcore vs. casual. There are raiders in top guilds that play 10 hours a month. There are group players that 6 box more than that a week (or day for that matter). So many more ways people interact with the game, some that have no alts, some that raid in multiple guilds, some that love the grind some that hate it. Completionists and people that mainly play for social interaction. And so many more and combinations of the above.

    Players wanted to see the raid content without a commitment of gathering 54 so a mission per zone usually duplicated one with lower requirements or mechanics removed/toned down (including GMM). Some want tank and spank in group and in raids. Some find that boring as heck. Or 2 group mobs and missions, others won't go near that.

    A lot are saying the same kinds of things in various posts, but the goal would be to have everything for everyone, right? Good luck. However, more diversity available is better, IN MY OPINION. I don't pretend to start a post with what I think and then go on to speak for the entirety of the raid population, or my guild, or times outside of raids, or prior to being in a raiding guild.

    I think the EoK expansion had an ok mix, but what's really interesting to me is that TBL seems kinda close too? Some hard group content, some easy. Some hard raid content, some easy. Some longer missions, some much faster. All of which is colored by individual playstyles and all that. People have argued this year that group content (at least) started too hard, and then turn around and others argue that GMM (group content) is too easy. Personally, I think both opinions have some merit, particularly that it all wasn't available at the same time.
    IblisTheMage likes this.
  20. Littlelegs Elder

    Done. Next?
    Sancus and Brohg like this.