So now that DBG has almost killed Coirnav....exp increase?

Logged on today during prime time and there were 8 beastlords on in my channel...less than 200 in the general channel.

Since Coirnav is almost dead due to the release of 2 new servers, and such a long delay of expansion release during expansion release, can we actually consider increasing exp rate?

I would really like to level up some alts....but man the exp here is still rough. I think the original Mangler idea revealed that people really don't like slow exp. Can we rethink Coirnav exp at this point?

The general consensus is the new servers affected some players who are bored with PoP (waiting on LDoN or GoD). I don't blame the exp for the existing Coirnav players leaving or trying the new servers as majority staying behind are tired of re-grinding classic up (unless you are doing it for the kronos on a new server). The attrition is similar on every TLP server at this stage (also given the fact DBG spew out so many TLP servers now which cause other existing TLP servers to suffer said attrition).

As for the exp I personally feel it's fine since we have access to Fire - albeit it's a little slow but in 3+ months it will become moot when GoD opens and there is another exp boost to happen then permanently upgrading the experience tier.

Some guilds were affected by new servers but it had little to do with the exp. New players in general would likely prefer to start fresh on a new server or those who are bored with that, coirnav is still a suitable option for a PoP+ TLP server.

Mangler was sand in the face of Coirnav.

Mangler's XP rate is what was desired by many from the start of Coirnav. The real clincher though is the next Phinny clone coming a year faster than what the cycle suggested. Combine the two and one might say it was a kick in the... Coirnav.

The Gates XP rate bump cannot get here fast enough.

I mean...I hear folks complaining all the time about the exp rate on Coirnav, but I have only been playing since a couple weeks before Luclin, and my current main was actually created the day Luclin dropped. Last night I hit 350 AAs at lvl 65. All of that has been earned the old fashioned way (no AE groups), and very little has been earned in places like PoWater/Fire. I've also had the time to level up a box mage since PoP launched to 65 (exp bonus helped) and hit 31 AAs on it last night.

I wouldn't be mad about having a permanent increase, but, at the same time, exp does not feel terrible to me as it is...especially with all the bonus exp events we've seen in the past few months.

It isn't just the Coirnav XP rate...


Recall, the forums were cursing Mangler when it was first announced. The Devs made one simple change. The forums couldn't stop praising Mangler thereafter. The change was a faster and better XP experience. That speaks volumes.

Coirnav was fine with its XP rate on a 2-year cycle of Phinny clones. The 2-year cycle meant that the server would have the DODH XP rate (much faster) prior to the next clone. With a 1-year cycle, that means it still has the low XP rate while the new bells and whistles come out for the next clone.

Coirnav will eventually have faster XP than Mangler, but it will take more attrition damage than typical. If this was intentional, then okay. If this was not intentional, they can lessen the impact by expediting the XP rate increases.

I suspect part of the problem here is people don't actually want to play on a progression server for years and years, they want to play original EQ through whatever expansion they think ruined EQ and then they stop playing... but if you keep releasing progression servers, they will go to the new one and keep playing/paying for the game.

There probably isn't a lot of incentive anywhere to try and keep a progression server populated for more than the first year or so. My guess is a lot of people come back to playing when the new server launches, and then players slowly fade away over time. This is a business and the company most likely sees more money launching new servers than in propping up older ones because most people don't actually want the entire classic EQ experience from start-to-finish. They want to recapture that First Kiss feeling.

Oh I get it...the original model of Mangler as "hardcore" was a swing and a miss. But in the Devs defense, P99 still gets lots of love from a very hardcore base that want to play that game. I can understand the thought process that led to the original Mangler announcement. I think what the resulting outrage underscored was that the folks who want that game are already playing it on P99 and those of us here on Live/TLPs are looking for something different.

I just can't personally understand the allure of starting over again and again and again on new TLPs. The Classic experience was great for the time, but to spend all the time (not to mention RL $$) to level up through Luclin/PoP, then just jump over and do it again...it's beyond me. Selo I understand a little better for the folks who want that race environment, but for the folks who were max level, with some AAs, a little bit of gear and 3 weeks into PoP, who left to start over on Mangler...I just don't get it.

I think it's similar to people who constantly roll alts. I know I find with a lot of games I tend to start over a lot, and often not even finish again. I don't really know why it is, but I understand the impulse. Trying to recapture some magic? Hoping that this time I'll do it right and be on the leading edge? I don't know, but that feeling is real.

I also do find it somewhat funny that right now one of the primary topics on these forums seem to be folks calling for faster exp rates on, not only Coirnav, but still on Mangler and Selo too.

The reality is, exp gains and gear (well, and community) are about all that EQ has ever had that made it "sticky". Coirnav is my first TLP experience, but based on what I have seen so far, you already have a significant amount of the player base that simply wants to log in a week or two before a new expansion unlocks, jump back in with their guild, blitz through the new expansion, AE group their way to max AAs and then dip out...maybe raiding once a week for a while, until the next expansion unlocks.

IMO faster exp caters to this audience, but does little for longevity of the server community, and certainly not for individual guilds.

But maybe that is the majority audience for TLPs, and maybe ongoing community, in a broad sense, is a lost cause on TLPs anyway. /shrug

Yeah, it's kind of an issue of realizing what you're asking for and recognizing the type of game you're playing. Everquest takes time, and the community really was always built around the moments in between the action (most of the moments, heh). I'm not saying it's superior because of this or that if someone doesn't want this, they are "wrong". It is what it is, and for me it has always been different from other games because of how much of it revolved around the social aspect. I think you lose that when you can just blast through all the content and max out as quickly as possible.

Some people want that game, and that's totally fine, but I don't think that's why a lot of people still play EQ after 20 years -- or like me come back to play it again even after a long break.

12 Coirnav guilds beat Quarm. Are you saying only 1 or 2 will be left to beat GOD? I find that difficult to believe.

So far, I think 2 of the 12 have shut down since downing Quarm. A couple others are still moving through EPs & Time. Honestly, some guild consolidation could go a long way, but there is always the issue of raid times, guild identity, loot systems, etc.

I would not expect all 10-15 guilds that are currently raiding to make it all the way through Tacvi, but I do think it will be more than 1-2.

For comparison's sake, 20 guilds beat Quarm in era on Phinny. 19 guilds went on to finish GoD in era. If GoD isn't over and already Coirnav has lost 2 of 12, that's significantly faster decay.

This is probably to be expected. This isn't a new phenomenon and a fair amount of people have done this before. They may not want to do it again, even if they initially thought they did.

But even still, two data points is a coincidence, not necessarily a pattern. There isn't enough information here to think the decay is caused by the same thing, or to indicate what is causing the decay.

Coirnav isn't dead yet, but the server is certainly hurting. What's going on now is we have a large community of players that raids on Coirnav, then logs over to play on Mangler due to the better casual gameplay. Matching the XP on both servers would make a big difference to Coirnav, but it'd also remove what makes the servers distinct. I still think this is a good idea.

The longer term outcome for Coirnav will be that advanced players will roll alts on Mangler and spend their time playing there. Low relative population means that the remaining player base will be pushed to abandon rather than advancing their characters, re-rolling on Mangler. New players will overwhelmingly choose a different server due to the expectation of crappy XP.

Guilds will, in short order, be starved for recruits, and roll into each other through mergers, much as happened on Agnarr. Unlike Agnarr, the promise of new content can lure players to continue on, if the playing field is more level with new servers. Matching XP with Mangler looks like the right move to make. Players who want to experience EQ in classic mode can remain on Mangler. Those who want to level up alts may do so without being driven away by Coirnav's current dull grind.

Coirnav's current players also need to play a role in revitalizing the server. I'll call out <Crits n Giggles> as a bright spot on the server for running pick-up flagging raids for the casual players. More of this sort of thing, and fostering newbie / lowbie players will help the server as well.

Coirnav certainly isn't dead, but it is hard to imagine a scenario where it is able to thrive/grow again. And to be fair, in many ways I believe that is by design. Attrition is going to continue and at this point, there is nothing being done to drive new/returning players in that direction at all.

If you look at Twitch, Coirnav is barely represented. Even in the launcher, Coirnav is now down, just another name among all the others.

Unless there is some sudden resurgence of folks who give up on Selo/Magler and come back for GoD or something, those of us planning to hang around on Coirnav better get used to one another, because this is us.

Since playing 20 years ago, Coirnav was my my first TLP and I returned 2 months into Luclin. It was immediately apparent to me that getting a group at low/mid levels was a struggle and entire zones which I remember thriving 20 years ago, were now desolate and empty. It also became apparent with PoP on the horizon and having not yet even hit 60, I had a lot of catching up to do in levels and AAs which was overwhelming given the slow exp rate.

Given the tremendous grind necessary to catch up to everyone else, I see absolutely no reason to go back to Coirnav.

Biggest thing the devs can do so Coirnav doesn't hemorrhage players is to not make us stuck in LDoN for so long. It is beyond moronic to have everyone raiding PoTime for 5+ months.

The sooner GoD/OoW gets here, the sooner Coirnav's population can get a shot in the arm.

Very simple fix.

No one wants 8 months of PoTime.

Instanced/AOC TLP players have become very spoiled. If there are not 10+guilds clearing endgame and several general channels with 400 each, then omg, the server is dead.