Devs - Ragefire & Theatre of Blood; You really hate us don't you?

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Silinius, Apr 4, 2019.

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  1. Golgoret Lorekeeper

    The atrocious design of ToB minis makes it really difficult to make a workable rotation (rotations worked well in places like PoP because it was basically impossible for anyone who wasn't in the rotation to get all the way to places like Sol Ro tower or the elemental planes, so enforcement was straightforward).

    The rate at which flags come for ToB though is completely inadequate for a server with as many guilds needing to get into Deathknell as this one. That plus the fact that ToB is incredibly easy to get to and the flagging mobs drop loot and last blood (which means every box crew that doens't care about DK will also have a desire to kill them) means that there's just no way for this to not suck. They could have done so many things to fix this:

    - Allow them to spawn in picks but drop only flags in the pick, not loot
    - Quadruple the number of flags dropped
    - Just plain removing the loot so no one kills them who doesn't need DK access
    - Adding the AoC they created for Phinny

    It was raised several times, but the devs made the clearly and obviously incorrect choice not to support this server, and now we're seeing the result. There was no need for any of this drama, but I place the blame entirely 100% on the devs. They fixed it on Phinny with an AoC, and they fixed it for everyone in DoDH by instancing Vule. There were zero valid or acceptable reasons for what they did to ragefire, and now we're all dealing with the consequences.
    Silinius likes this.
  2. Silinius Augur


    Hmmm what a novel idea... I wish someone would have suggested that a month ago.

    Sarcasm aside. Faceless recommended that approach a month ago... but instead, it was radio silence from everyone else until Monday Morning, when we were told that ToB would be FFA. This is exactly what we were trying to avoid in the first place.
    mealintwo likes this.
  3. Kloven Elder


    Atrocious yes, but working as designed as we like to say in the software world, right? Removing loot or adding flag pieces would likely impact other servers.

    The devs have been consistent that AoC's cannot be added to Ragefire because it is not a true box server. We are all familiar with the box armies that still roam the hillside of Ragefire.
    errorCode101 likes this.
  4. Kloven Elder

    I was included on updates on negotiations consistently the last two weeks. Not sure why your recommendation would not have been considered, my guess is the recommended model you offered was tilted toward a specific guild.

    Perhaps some negotiation should have been started last night while all 252 of you were in the same room, err same zone.
    errorCode101 likes this.
  5. Kloven Elder

    I know little of the history on Lockjaw, but I did become friends with some asia-pac players who had to leave Lockjaw because as the smaller guild they could not get a shot at Emp. While on Ragefire we had rotations for the most part on Luclin and PoP.

    If you didn't know there were kronolord's on Ragefire you should have done more research before transferring so you could coexist.
    errorCode101 likes this.
  6. Excin New Member


    They are on every server, I've just never seen top guilds bow down to them before--one of the sadder sights I've seen in EQ history. Any of the more hardcore TLP guilds I've been involved with would've scorched-earth those crews into submission ages ago.
  7. Kloven Elder

    Scorched the earth of Lavastorm to prevent those crews from getting into their DoN instances? Or scorched the earth of Neriak to prevent them from getting into DoDh? They have had time to grow in the last 3 expansions, as the rest of us have, doing the progression without contest. Ragefire rotations have had all types of crews at the negotiating table.
    errorCode101 likes this.
  8. Fraggly Augur

    I am curious what was suggested, as i have not been involved in any of the deal making or chats. Splitting the spawns up accordingly would have been ok i guess. By that i mean rotating each spawn set not one guild going for them all each time until they are done. Maybe rotating 2-3 guilds at a time so we can get the unlock timer started.

    I didn't join Ragefire until the 70 era so i don't know any of the history regarding faceless on Lockjaw but there is definitely a rivalry/payback type mentality out there. Hopefully going first wasn't the only suggestion mentioned? Coming to a server many people seemed to move to specifically because of old members associated with faceless and expecting to be going in first would be a bit... peculiar? If i had been around for some of the things i hear happened on Lockjaw there is no way i would yield and agree to go in second, again i understand that may not necessarily be you guys that are still playing but it is what it is. I wouldn't expect you guys to want to be second either, so....

    See you guys at the next lag fest. Bring extra socks for Maestro. :(
  9. Golgoret Lorekeeper

    I would maintain it isn't working as intended. The drop rates and respawn time made a lot more sense in an era when a server had maybe 1-2 endgame guilds per server (and even then there would often be one US based and one EU based guild, which further spread things out).

    They don't make any sense on a server where this many people can clear content and need access to Deathknell. The design was based around a server population distribution that no longer exists, that's why things like picks were added. As for the AOC thing, they added one for Vule even on Ragefire. Truebox and AOC are different concepts.
  10. jeffhannigan New Member

    Is it not against the rules to name specifically? Someone crush this post !
  11. sieger Augur

    I mean the reality is they've made it known for a long time that while AoCs are a quality of life addition to the game, they are not available to RF/LJ and never will be, anyone still on either server knows that. With Vule, it is interesting that they created an expedition for him specifically for Phinny, but didn't make it an AoC but rather changed the "base" game so there is no longer an open world version of Vule.

    To my knowledge that's the only thing like that they've done; for PoR on Phinny they had no AoCs for ToB or Relic I believe until about 1 month of player complaints due to...the expected outcome. So I mean seeing that history it's hard to be surprised where Ragefire is at.

    The one complaint I think that's fairly valid is zones like The Devastation not being able to spawn even a normal pickzone, those are zones of a type that have always had picks on Ragefire/Lockjaw.
  12. Warzon Elder

    The suggested rotation was: give a handful of forces a reasonable shot at clearing Deathknell to minimize the PoR timer. One guild was offered first round, first and second round, enough rounds to zone in a 54 man crew, an equal rotation between 6 or so forces (basically setting up a rotation for anyone who'd cleared Mayong). Etc, etc, etc. Instead they chose to team up with a mercenary force. The count stands thusly:

    Solo ToB Kills: Transfer Guild: 5, Incumbent Guild: 5, Incumbent Guild + Hired Help: 8. In the head-to-head DPS races, Transfer Guild: 1; Incumbent Guild: 1, Incumbent Guild + Hired Help: 2. Incumbent Guild did not contest the second round of spawns at all in the hopes that yet another good-faith-effort would lead to a rotation.

    In the instanced progression, transfer guild has 2 of the 3 first serverwides, though one of those was essentially a tie.

    Oh and everyone who was led to believe there would be a rotation? Yea we each killed a flagging mob from Relic/Devastation/Sverag and shared key pieces with the incumbent guild and each other, they have yet to actually kill any of those mobs.

    Some of us like to earn our way, some of us like to buy it. It is what it is. Entirely avoidable if either the devs or the incumbent guild truly understood the concept of mercy.

    Honestly though as long as someone gets DK beat that's a win for us all. PoR is terrible. Except Sullon, that fight is super fun.
  13. Warzon Elder

    Apologies, a correction: the transfer guild did not contest the second round of spawns at all, in the hopes that it would assuage whatever angst was leading the incumbent guild to demand no rotation.

    I stand corrected.
  14. mealintwo New Member


    so the suggested rotation is also something that it sounds like the CT leader didn't talk about with any of there members or officers. I am going to clarify this. Faceless had officers reach out to different guilds to propose a rotation. IT WAS NEVER MAKING FACELESS FIRST. It was offered to CT to avoid what is going on right now. No one can seriously be happy that 200+ people are sitting on spawns that has a huge window right now. Did faceless want server first? sure. But a rotation was offered, and Yukan basically chose to ignore everyone the entire month before PoR until Monday morning about an hour before launch. Where it was replied FFA basically to my knowledge.
    If you really want to know the full story of what was offered, reach out to a Faceless officer. Yukan was offered 54 flags to begin with to avoid this, so if people think you weren't offered server first, that's a lie. Yukan's reply was a rotation won't work and FFA about an hour before launch after ignoring everyone.
    Then you are paying a fully botted , scripted guild to help you and sit ontop of faceless to lag them out. Wouldn't you of rather just taken the 54 flags? you would of been about where you are already if not further....This is stupid and if anyone thinks this is fun, just wow.
  15. Silinius Augur

    As a negotiator, my first offer was certainly not my best offer and I fully expected it to be declined. The FIRST offer had us just doing two rounds of ToB and being gone (and sharing initial open worlds). My comeback offer was essentially 1:1:1:1:1:1:1 rotation. I really didn't care about who got what first in TOB as long as there was a rotation in place to avoid the crap shoot that is taking place now.

    Are we behind right now? Sure, we have like 1/3 of the force and our boxes don't fair well. But we could have avoided all of this and had decent relations between guilds and come out ahead as a server. Clearly that was not the intention from the beginning from other guilds.

    However, that has nothing to do with my original post. It's too late now but I wanted to call out that this could have been avoided if daybreak had thought ahead.

    Frankly the whole, "they don't add AoC's to non-truebox" doesn't hold up. We have instance mobs for Vule… the same could have been figured out here.
    mealintwo likes this.
  16. Spankarific New Member

    Nobody is forcing anyone to poopsock. If that were actually your intentions, wouldn't it make a lot more sense to simply not go after the mobs and let CT get their flags? Come on man, you aren't fooling anyone, you're just losing. We need some Bill O'Reilly up in here, so we can get the NO SPIN zone!
    errorCode101 likes this.
  17. mealintwo New Member

    yup, grats. you are winning with double the raid force and paying for help. Honestly. If any of CT would actually talk to someone, you'd be given the flags without contest. No one knows what your plan is. For all we know, CT's intentions is to poopsock and block Faceless. No one is forcing anyone to camp anything, correct. But no one is also communicating to let anyone in Faceless know what is even going on.
    Right now it basically seems CT is set on locking faceless out of DK. With no word of how many flags you are going after, if the intention is to C***block Faceless or not. It also seems to me people are pissed off at a members on faceless because of some bag 3 or 4 years ago that's not even around.
    As you said, no one is forcing a poopsock but it's going to continue until Yukan says something to faceless about CT's goal. I know your guild has 13 spawns? could of added that wrong. that's 39 flags. Some of you may think it's Faceless intentions to be bags but it's not. Any communication would be nice and this can all be avoided and stopped. Otherwise I guess have fun for the next 4 to 7 weeks?

    You want to brag we are losing, if you think any of this is about winning you're wrong. You have a guild designed to sit ontop of Faceless raid force even if they do nothing, you have designed your strat to lag out faceless. What Mercy is doing is simply logged in as many bots as they possible could to sit ontop of the dps of Faceless to lag them out , but you call that winning and having fun while bragging about it?
    Whatever happened to a real dps race? Are you afraid that you might actually lose those? It doesn't take much skill to have 2 botters log in as many toons as possible to lag out another guild.
    This would of been enjoyable no matter who won if CT actually played fair, rather than paying for outside help.
    The paid help from Mercy can be denied all it wants but I've had confirmation from members of your own guild.
  18. Spankarific New Member

    Yes, there was a mercenary effort this am when you wiped to Mad Mary Anne with 100 people, uncontested.

    I am sure that was completely based on lag caused by hired help who weren't in the zone. Then, when there was an actual DPS race, against a raid less than HALF your size, it was once again the fault of toons not even in zone, that you lost.

    Also, this lag is targeted on your raid force, causing only you to lag. That's some super secret code that has been worked on at CERN when they aren't trying to solve the world's problems through physics. Thank goodness they were able to get that finished before PoR launched! Now that the truly important stuff is out of the way, maybe they can go back to smashing atoms.

    There is no hired help, and anyone telling you there is simply isn't in the know. Nobody is doing anything that isn't going on with everyone.... unless you can give me a good reason why someone ran through zone dragging 50-ish corpses? So either we've got the universe's fastest /dragcorpse typist on our hands, or we're talking about some shenanigans.

    There aren't any monsters under the bed, and no boogeymen in the closet. Sometimes that noise you hear is just the wind.
  19. errorCode101 New Member

  20. errorCode101 New Member

    So glad the scientists worked out lag targeting! I think I saw one testing it out the other day.
    damemess likes this.
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