TBL wizard burn potential.

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Critts, Feb 21, 2019.

  1. kizant Augur

    Test One Hundred Three in 71s, 51.61M Damage @726.93K, 1. Kizante = 51.61M@726.93K in 71s

    Everything but glyph and I'm missing the good type 18 sympathetic aug but I have the magic one. And no darkshield of the scholar. Got everything else you can think of.

    [IMG]

    I started off like this. It's why there's 2 manaburn in the list:

    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:40 2019] You say, 'replenish off'
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:46 2019] You begin casting Focus of Arcanum VI.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:46 2019] Your mind fills with a focus on the arcane.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:48 2019] You begin casting Fury of the Gods LI.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:48 2019] You are filled by the Fury of the Gods.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:49 2019] You begin casting Arcane Fury III.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:49 2019] You invoke the fury of magic.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:50 2019] You begin casting Frenzied Devastation XXX.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:50 2019] You feel frenzied devastation come upon you.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:51 2019] You begin casting Arcane Destruction V.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:51 2019] You call upon arcane destruction.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:54 2019] You begin casting Second Spire of Arcanum IV.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:54 2019] You focus on the second spire of arcanum.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:55 2019] You begin casting Mana Burn XVII.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:55 2019] Your spell is interrupted.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:55 2019] Your ability failed. Timer has been reset.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:56 2019] You begin casting Twincast Rk. III.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:56 2019] Your detrimental magic splits with the focusing of Twincast.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:57 2019] You begin casting Mana Burn XVII.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:37:57 2019] Auto attack is on.
    [Mon Apr 01 19:38:00 2019] Kizante hit Test One Hundred Three for 2800927 points of magic damage by Mana Burn XVII.
    Critts likes this.
  2. Nylrem Augur

    Critts, I'll play devil's advocate :)

    It sounds to me like you believe that other classes, with zero adps, self plus merc only buffs and equipment, can do significantly more than 800k dps in 70s ish timeframe?

    If that is true, and they were to bump up wizard self only burst dps… how would they implement it so as to keep their sustained with aDPS which is already at an incredible level, reasonable? When you can sustain 400+% of self only burst for 9-10 minutes WITH adps, how would you implement something that would not also incrementally increase sustained, and not be like old style manaburn, which the devs hated, for valid reasons?
  3. gotwar Gotcharms

    The most interesting part about this parse, for me, is to see how little your burst DPS seems to scale with ADPS.

    I wouldn't really say that Wizard sustained DPS is at "an incredible level" right now. But I also don't really see the point in bumping Wizard self only burst DPS (is that what this thread is about? I only skimmed).
  4. Sancus Augur

    This part of your post confused me, and I assume something was lost in translation. If we say wiz unsupported burst is 726k or w/e, 400% of that is 2.9 mil DPS. I don't really think they're sustaining that for 9-10 minutes. Perhaps you meant 40%?
  5. Sancus Augur

    It scales decently well with ADPS, but there's a huge difference between having every nuke focused by Stormjolt Vortex vs getting maybe a couple counters every 24 or 36 seconds (depending on if you save it for Braid). That's one of the reasons a self parse w/ no ADPS against a combat dummy isn't very helpful for extrapolating real-world dps.
    kizant and gotwar like this.
  6. kizant Augur

    I think that's mostly because of Vortex. Which is one of the reasons I like the spell. It lets them increase our solo DPS without having much effect on our raid DPS.
    Sancus and gotwar like this.
  7. gotwar Gotcharms

    I completely forgot about that. Parse makes much more sense with that context in mind.
  8. Renotaki Elder

    Stormjolt Vortex is nice. Just remember, I'm not being a bad egg by hitting the main assist mob with a Frostbound Covenant then switching to my own mob to self dps and hit with Stormjolt Vortex. I'm just playing my part as a DPS class.
    H-hey....don't look at me like that.
    DaciksBB, gotwar and Sancus like this.
  9. Brohg Augur

    You can't trigger your own Covenant, doesn't matter what else you're doing as long as you don't keep doing that "else" during other wizards' Covenants
  10. Critts Augur

    That is an assumption. I believe nothing about other classes’ burns without ADPS. Other classes would need to freely give out parses of burns without ADPS with an exspressed Intrest in seeing the classes better “balanced” (if that’s the word) for me to see and as you put it believe. I do feel that wizards fall behind other classes significantly in sustained DPS because their burns are where there numbers come from. As far as how to fix it... seriously I don’t know. Wizards are not in the worst spot, but we are not I’m compition for the second or 3rd spot.

    If I personaly where to have EQ my way I would change the way wizards cast spells significantly. We would deal extremely consistent non critical damage useing very long casting sometimes regent requiring spells. So think about haveing to craft regents in order to be able to cast a spell and the taking 20secs to cast it followed by a very statisfing boom. The regent being restricted to so many held (20 or so) per char wizard only or something of that nature.
    Also playing with the fulmination style of spell. So think about a Gambit style buff that lands on you that requires you to land a random order of xfire spells. xice spells and xmagic spells to deal a huge amount of damage. I’ll even go a bit further and say if you fail the random combo it lands a feed back on the caster that would suck or we could make it fun and make the feed back empower nearby players or mobs.
    I also like the idea of makeing wizards do a ritual style spell cast that would require some sort of command inputs or /social to do correctly. Soo something like turn right, duck, : light fuse.
    The idea behind this is to give wizards the ability to continue to do higher amounts of damage at a greater cost of command input or time cost, there by adding risk to our damage. We wouldn’t always be able to use these sorts of spells and they would require significant thought and skill to preform. They also wouldn’t detract from our already established play style of min maxing adps.

    Ps this was wrtten on the fly on a Mobil device sorry for any grammar issues.
  11. DaciksBB Augur

    brb, screenshotting for later use
  12. Critts Augur

    Old news 4th paragraph.

  13. DaciksBB Augur

    was mostly a joke, I already knew he did this. in fact considering how many rangers we have atm, it's probably better this way
  14. Critts Augur

    Mine was mostly a joke as well.
  15. Renotaki Elder

    All jokes aside (I know I have a hand in this too), I think it would be good to re-focus in on the main theme for this thread. In my opinion, the two areas of wizard DPS that most need some attention right now are burst DPS (which isn't bad, but we are wizards so I think we should be higher) and low/no ADPS group sustained damage over very long periods of time on single targets. I guess you could argue that this second category isn't exactly a "wizardly" damage niche, but burst damage traditionally is. It's also part of our job description.

    Nylrem asked what we could do to increase wizard burst without breaking things or heightening raid sustained damage too much. That would rule out super strong nukes with high mana costs, because crafty wizards would still be able to use gift of mana procs to use that spell for sustained as long as it counts as a 110 or lower spell. Although, I would love a spell that fits that description.

    It might be a little hard to pin down exactly what value you would need to pull wizards ahead of others in burst damage, because some of the classes with really strong burst like monks have a fair amount of RNG attached to their max potential in these situations. On super fast burns like doing the Pirate anniversary raid in ~30 seconds, I've seen some really incredible burst from our local monk. I'll leave it up to him if he wants to link that parse but it was well over one mil.

    So, here's what I propose: what about a high crit damage mod burn (SPA 170) with 1 min up time and a 20 minute reuse? Depending on where you would want to place wizard burst potential, you could perhaps make the value anywhere from 100% - 300% crit damage for the period of the burn. I'd be interested in other wizards opinions on what sort of thing the devs could implement if they did actually want to help wizard burst out.
  16. kizant Augur

    That's not a bad idea. I'd think at least 200% for 1m would be the minimum for any real improvement. Assuming there's no stacking issues.. They could also just increase frenzied.
    Renotaki likes this.
  17. Brohg Augur

    Wizard buffs?

    As the class most fundamentally identified as "the nuking class", I'd like for wizards to have the highest base damage nuke (no, 1/minute Dissi doesn't count because being level 250 classes it out of most damage mods)

    I'd like the Twincast blockers removed from Wildmagic line, restoring its niche puissance for those players that pay attention to when it's good.

    I'd like the anomalous double Twincast blocker removed from Dissident Fire, so that it behaves at least correctly if still not superbly during burns.
  18. Cragzop Cranky Wizard

    A new 20 minute cool down aa is never a fix for a problem in EQ. Ever.
  19. kizant Augur

    Number of abilities, stacking conflicts, cast times, re-use times, duration, effect strength etc. There's nothing wrong with varying any of these things to achieve an outcome. Wizards already require less hotkeys than most classes so I don't think a new ability should be off the table entirely. Unless someone proposes a better option.

    Given the duration and re-use requirements for fixing burns while not changing other aspects of our DPS... I don't think they should touch arcane fury, fury of the gods, or the spires and it wouldn't make sense to change base damage or cast times of existing spells. It also wouldn't make sense to change any of our focus or passive AAs.

    That leaves Arcane Destruction, which isn't very reliable for DPS since it's also a rune, as well as Frenzied Devastation, Mana Burn, or adding something new. And I don't think extending ITC by a few counters would have much of an impact. Besides it isn't class specific. They're also probably tired of changing Mana Burn at this point and I'm not sure we want something that requires a heavy mana cost to fix our ability to burn on a regular basis. So, that leaves the two options.

    Personally, I would prefer something timed based rather than counter based and I'd rather keep Frenzied as an option for extending my sustained DPS over using it solely for burns. Not that I'd be against an upgrade of any kind tbh. But I can understand the want for a new ability. I wouldn't even mind something very different than what we're used to. Give us a self only version of Quick Time that cuts cast times by 0.5 seconds or something completely new. I don't know. whatever.

    Brohg's list is still a good one but none of those really address the problem with burn DPS. And I'm not sure it's worth fighting the same battles over and over again.
  20. BadPallyGuildLeader Augur

    Perhaps higher skill caps for melee prone int casters among us :D

    This thread delivers because meleeing casters never gets old!