mage/chant vs sk/sham

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Damezza, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. Yendar Augur

    Not going to be able to tank on the SK until you learn how to play it.. not going to be able to learn how to play it until you start attempting to tank on it. A level appropriate geared/SK is going to outperform a mage pet by ALOT if the person knows what they’re doing. The advantage to a pet is all you have to do is hit attack... maybe toss a rune on it and hit fort whenever it’s up.
  2. Yendar Augur

    Sounds like you have no idea how to play an SK at all and basically pl’d It.

    Why do you need 10’s of thousands of AA’s to tank current content? Just maxing CA, CS, & General Sturdiness will put a 110 freshly autogranted AA with TBL tier 1 non prestige gear (that’s rotting nonstop) ahead of a mage pet with maxed companions fortification... anything after that is just gravy on top. The mage pet isn’t getting any better unless you get an EM ear (& that’s only a marginal upgrade)
  3. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Ok, so this is pretty much all true. You HAVE to be dedicated to your tank and do all of the things. Otherwise stick with the Mage.
  4. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Having done this recently I have some experience at it. You make some assumptions here: tanking current content? Ok, take that fresh 110 SK with 15k AA ... where, again? And in what gear? You say gear is rotting "all the time" but I rarely see it broadcast from TBL. Why? Because people are either in T2/T3 TBL or still hunting in EoK and RoS. Getting to those TBL zones for all the 'nonstop' rots is not feasible without a bunch of friends that can spare a spot in their fellowship. In which case you'd probably have an avenue for rotting gear anyway with no need to post here.

    The mage pet out tanks many player tanks for want of gear. Sure the tanks can disc and whatnot, but when the disc runs out before the mob is dead (or another has added), the tank splats due to lack of gear.

    You make gearing/AA'ing a tank sound easy. And it is NOT.
    Quatr likes this.
  5. Damezza Augur



    same is true for BL pets?
  6. Cicelee Augur

    And many non magicians make having a magician pet with an EM focus and Fortify Companion an automatic *I WIN* button. It is not.

    Yes it takes much longer to gear up a SK than it does a mage pet. But at some point the SK is going to be a better tank. And when that point in the race comes, the magician pet will NEVER overtake the SK and reclaim its spot atop the fight.

    And while a magician pet and a SK will be just fine with a single trash mob, it is when you get that named or multiple mobs in camp when your magician is going to seriously wish s/he was a SK. People see a mage pet tank a TBL trash mob and assume the pet can handle tanking anything. I would love to see that mage pet tank six TBL trash mobs at once (hint #1: it cannot, hint #2: a SK can).

    At the end of the day, play what interests you the most. Or if you cannot decide, flip a coin.
    Yendar likes this.
  7. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    I don't dispute that the SK will eventually make a better tank. What I am trying to say (and obviously not very well) is the notion that gearing/AA'ing a tank is anywhere close to easy or fast without a very large support network is folly and very, very bad advice for someone considering creating new characters.
  8. Tappin Augur

    I don't think a pet is easy mode. It does require some effort and thought to manage. although you can get by with some decent gear and most of your AAs to progress through current content (mostly the same for any class). However, a tank requires completion of specific augs and progression to to do the same thing.

    Furthermore, many are under estimating the amount attention a shaman needs to be effective adps/healer/dps. That's why many SKs roll a wizard or a mage as a box. you can get decent amount of dps out of them (way more than a merc) without much attention.
  9. Icaen Elder


    Oh thank god for this post, I read this whole thread thinking my lvl 100 sk/mag box was old news. I'm glad it's still a decent combo thru TDS+. Might add an enchanter if I can figure out 3 boxing...
    Yendar likes this.
  10. Petalonyx Augur

    I recommend starting with a mage pet for tank. Especially if you are boxing. Especially if you value efficiency.

    Either it works great for you, or, if you decide later that you want a tank character, the mage will enable you to gear up a PC tank class much faster. Over the last year, I've run 2 mages and 1 paladin to 110 with near max group gear and AA. I still prefer to pet tank current content with mage earth pets. This is mainly because they have larger health pools than the paladin. I think they may also be immune to some nasty anti-tank mechanics like FD, Charm, Fear. Gearing the paladin would have taken me twice as long without the mage pets to tank EOK+ after leaving Gribble.
    Gio-Cefalu likes this.
  11. Yendar Augur

    What is T3, there aren’t any zones in it? You obviously have zero clue of the new expansion. Stratos is more camped than any other TBL zone.. probably because it has the least non evolving type mobs atm.
  12. Yendar Augur

    Pet is not immune to any of those mechanics. The FD is what makes your pets aggro clear & stop attacking. Then you have to resend pet (just like a PC).. pet can be mezzed too.. even GMM iron out the legion my pet often gets mezzed for a minute and I’m forced to tank w a caster.
  13. Yendar Augur

    How long can it take you to gear a paladin when Bi’Faak literally spawns every 30 min or so and drops T1 wok loot? You don’t even have to be the one killing him.. people were calling out rots nonstop the whole eok & rod expansion as lots still used FM as their exp zone.
  14. Yendar Augur

    So you went from Gribble, to eok+ and skipped TDS, TBM.. you went up to fight mobs that were WAY tougher after fighting in instances where you could pull the whole zone.

    You weren’t playing your paladin properly in gribbles either assume, just too overpowered for it to matter. The real issue here is your skill level on the pally. You should practice playing it on weaker content without a merc healer and move up as you improve. Disc rotations are key, I’m assuming you aren’t using things enough.

    What current content are you tanking on the mage pet? T2 TBL? Because my earth pet struggles even with 2 healer mercs and chanter slow. 1 healer merc and I have to rune/spot heal even on trash mobs. Namers are tough but doable (sometimes) I generally take chaotic fire out of my multibind (since I’m twincasting from AA anyways) and put renewal of Ioulin in the top spot and have to mainly heal even with 2 mercs. It’s just not very safe pet tanking unless you have a real healer too.
  15. Yendar Augur

    Just food for thought.. nobody on the fight fire thread said they’re able to pet tank all 4 mobs. (Even non tanks like Zerkers and monks said they’re able to tank them)

    As well as the SK’s, Warr’s, Pally’s.
  16. Petalonyx Augur

    Does it matter? Regardless, it would be much faster and easier with a mage. I've geared up both a knight and a mage at the same time. Ive watched dozens of tanks struggle to gear up in ROS and TBL. With that backdrop, i'd only recommend a tank character over a mage in a duo if the individual is prepared for at least a year of effort. They may also need a lot more assistance from others. If you are already established, know how most of EQ works, have friends to assist, and have lots of time to devote to it, then it's easier to recommend a PC tank. They do tank better in the end, but im not sure many players even reach the halfway point.
    Quatr likes this.
  17. Yendar Augur

    If they aren’t going to reach the halfway point and hey are just doing content they’re overpowered in then it doesn’t matter. The OP is obviously asking about end game and assuming both the tank and mage know what they’re doing. Not to mention you aren’t going to survive on the mage either if you’re undergeared as the ae’s will just eat your measly hps up. You STILL need to farm the same TBL gear for the mage too.

    It might be faster with a mage because they do more dps. You can level faster, but they don’t tank nearly as well. Even by your comment yourself.. you were overgeared for gribbles and 105 and still couldn’t tank it. That doesn’t even make sense. It’s clearly a skill gap.. you never learned to play the pally and just PL’d it.

    And people stopped broadcasting the weeping and battleworn gear because it’s SO COMMON everyone already has it.
  18. Gio-Cefalu Augur


    I think you're kind of actually proving my point from earlier here. So, your "suggested" path for a new tank is to go through every bit of content before the current content, farming all of the gear, grinding all of the AAs in TDS, TBM, etc. Yes, most of us ran Gribbles to try and get caught up with current content. If we had taken the path you suggest by doing progression, farming augs, grinding AAs, achievements, missions, etc in every single expansion from 85 (assuming a heroic character) until max level, then it would take you a very long time to complete as a casual player.

    If however, you leveled up a mage, you could much more easily jump into current content without needing to grind for such a large amount of gear and AA to tank said content. I mage could run those same gribbles, go grab a chitin stud from Tempest Temple for a decent EM item, and then go straight to LC to farm the EM 18 bone engraved earring. Only a couple pieces of gear would be required before the mage could really start farming Bi'faak for gear.

    I don't think anyone is really trying to argue that a mage pet will ever max out higher than a real tank. The point I think many of us is arguing is that it takes significantly longer to invest in grinding gear, augs, and AA as a real tank, whereas a pet can tank some current content (not every named mob) with more relative ease up front. For a casual player, this may be a more suitable route to take to experience the most current content given limitations in play time and hours.
  19. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Ah, the voice of unreason has spoken.

    "More camped"

    Stratos: 11 players (4 of which standing at aug NPC)
    EoK-Frontier Mountains: 58 players

    Go away Yendar. You foul the air that I clarify.
  20. Yendar Augur

    The keyword there was “TBL” I have a feeling you’re one of those people unable to zone into most of the TBL zones. You’re killing in 2 year old expansions and trying to give advice. ANYONE can tank in EOK. Pets. Casters. Casters pets. Priest pets. SK Pets. We’re 110 now and have a whole load of the mitigation and avoidance AA’s. Your advice is obviously not relevant to current content. The facts are in TBL the pet won’t do all that great against namers. That’s what people actually WANT to kill. Being unable to kill them (or run missions on your own) is what makes it take you FOREVER to gear up. Being ABLE to kill them allows you to gear up almost INSTANTLY. Just today I’ve had almost an entire T2 set rot (the people that can zone into t2 don’t need it.. it’s that common) and killed 3 T1 stratos namers that I given the loot away from.