Selo exp needs to be absolutely huge to succeed. Not just tweaked.

Your definition of casual is different than mine, absors, or the primary dictionary definition.

There are people who have limited playtime who want to log in and maximize it. Log in for raids, good xp burns, etc. They don't play much but go hard when they do. The phinny model should appeal here.

There are other people who log in a lot but aren't trying to fuss with drama or stress. They may be happy to do substandard xp to see a new place, or just invite lfgs even if not the FOTM class. They play a lot but aren't going to fit into some top guild or be labeled hardcore. They shock their groups when people find out their /played is actually a ton. Not hardcore, and selo is perfect here.

No disrespect taken but here is the thing. Most players are going to fall in between the spectrum of ultra hardcore and ultra casual. There is a reason they left Selo alone and made changes to mangler and it was not because the "hardcore" crowd was complaining except maybe about the labels of the two servers because the true hardcore players knew that nothing about Mangler was actually hardcore. The appeal of Selo for someone who really is hardcore both in play time and effort is the fact that they are always racing with something to do and can flex at the end of the day for their accomplishments. This is the whole basis of people announcing server firsts and such to literally stroke their own ego.

If you take away the effort aspect and just make this a quick tour through EQ you have effectively killed the experience for the hardcore players that signed up for that. Asking for those changes now is like people asking for more expansion on Agnarr. Considering we are not even a month into the server and people are already asking for fundamental changes to be made just shows that people picked the wrong server. Instead these people should form casual guilds if they want to stay or make the switch now before they invest to much time into a server they are forever going to be dissatisfied with. In the mean time asking for a selo 2.0 with faster xp and earlier AA autogrant should be the focus of making changes should that be more in line with the casual fast unlock crowd.

Did you even look at the equation presented because it describes exactly what you just described in words. Secondly the term casual means to do something on an irregular basis. To determine what is considered "regular" in EQ terms it would require something from DBG that shows the average playing time in hours per day per account which probably wont happen so regular is going to be rather subjective depending on who you ask.

Can't believe we are still arguing over the definition of casual. It is irrelevant, neither server is targetted at casual or hardcore.

Definitions are funny things. I'd seen people who were apparently violently allergic to the term hardcore who nonetheless outlined what they desired goal that by mine and most of my friend was ultra hardcore. I see trying to keep everything relevant in era which was explained as completing it all before the next expansion as being ultra hardcore but boy don't say that!

Selo is good for casual and hardcore.

Mangler is good for krono farming and getting your fresh, naked 1-50 fix.

Hope I cleared this up for everyone.

Come on now. Casual is a mild interest, or a non-committal fashion.

Low amount of time to play (sporadic either in duration or frequency or both) vs. intense (multiple days a week, for multiple hours)


Laid back intentions of play in the game (not concerned about in-era, or completism) vs. intense playtime intentions (beating targets in-era --arguably full farm status in-era, or loving the timesink aspects of the game such as questing).

If a person is low playtime and low intentions they are casual.
The problem has been people that are one of the low/laid-back that self label as casual...

..and the people that are one of the intense factors that self label as casual (or are seen as some devs as casual).

The intense/intense... aka true hardcore racing types (who may like contesting open world or not, pvp or not, beat targets to unlock things or not) are pretty easy to serve if you take the completist timesinkers out of the equation.

The racing/tourist types are the people that a true Combine/Sleeper 2.0 would serve, and Selos does a nice job of. Selos is also good for anyone with playtime that is efficient and/or not hung up on completism. It's a strange choice for the limited playtime person, but maybe it works for some.

by all accounts the server is already dying. Community is toxic and people are realizing already they can't keep up and they aren't even into content they haven't seen yet. it was at medium population already a few days ago on the server status page. All time record for fastest server to not hit high pop? Agnarr, Ragefire and Phinny were all high pop within seconds of a server up.

It's almost as if no one mentioned these issues when the server came out. Reap what you sow. Selo will be the fastest server to die.. faster than combine/sleeper. Enjoy it. I'll re-sub next year when Mangler gets around to PoP. Couldn't have been a worse 20th anniversary.

Pretty sure they are no worse off in that regard than Vulak or Lockjaw.

You are wrong. Very wrong, about as wrong as you can get on this one mate.

I want high AA exp. That is all.

I'm hoping they change their minds about keeping Selo at live EXP and give Selo the same % increase over the other TLP server consistantly until it hits live.

Selo may need other adjustments for individual expansion like EOK where there was 20K ish AAs added, EOK I believe has the highest AA count of any of the expansions.

See a lot of people that argued that 1 month unlocks was plenty of time and that you did not need to be max aa or have bis gear to play on Selo's and have fun , now saying that xp is too slow and that it has to be increased or Selo's is doomed. So just let me say you do not need max aa or bis gear to play , In fact you do not even have to be able to raid every expansion in 1 month

I've been thinking long and hard about the pros and cons of mangler vs selos.

Mangler has a decent population now, but the server is just phinny 3.0 and the population will start to die as soon as phinny 4.0 appears. Yes you've fast xp now, but to what end... there's no AA's so once you hit 50 that's it until kunark.

Selos feels like it has a smaller population, but I question if alot of that is down to the fact everyone is spread out over classic, kunark, velious and Luclin instead of all being crammed into classic.

For me, selos will retain more population than Mangler over the longer term. The USP is that it's heading for Live, with instances, AOC's, truebox code, and it will do it before Phinny. Alot has been made about how 'harsh' it is trying to keep up with raids.

Is it though?

This comes down to what are you raiding for... loot or just the experience of doing the raids. Looking at phinnyprogress you can see historically even semi casual guilds can clear most expansions within a month.... the remaining time is just farming gear which is usually replaced by group level content in the next expac.

If you're just there to experience the raids, then 1 month is absolutely fine. Just spend the rest of the time relaxing, doing group content and having fun.

If you're into grinding the same raid to try to get BIS items which are destined for the dustbin anyway, then mangler is probably a better bet (until phinny 4.0 that is)

Yes Selos has a couple of hard core guilds, but you know what, i hardly ever see them as they're always raiding. Everyone else is fairly chilled and having fun.

Selo's for me is the server that will start slow and get stronger as it has the fast progression USP
Mangler will start strong then die off when phinny 4.0 lands as it's just a clone.

This is irrespective of xp rates.

We were under the impression that xp would be faster than it is, and aaxp would work.

We also argued that it would eventually become a problem in the level 80+ range. The key here is that while we recognise the potential inability to keep up with aas later on we DO NOT want increased unlocks as the solution. The longer unlock fix to all time issues is garbage. Keep the server pace, and instead increase the xp rate (like rares and instances) instead. When selo is in tss will it still be "twice as fast as ragefire"? No. It will be the same, exactly, as it or any other tss+ server. This is the upcoming problem.

We don't need max aas or bis. That's not what is being asked for. We want aaxp to not be identical to every other tlp.

This just seems like a "This isnt what I thought it was" post....

If players do not need max aa's or bis then they do not "need' faster than other tlp's exp. If they do not want slower unlocks then deal with not being max everything in each expansion. Players have the server experience and unlocks as advertised, faster than other TLP's experience rates but not as fast as live and 1 month unlocks. People who wanted 1 month unlocks no matter what got what they wanted. Now they want even faster experience because "reasons" The more experience fix to all perceived issues is garbage. Deal with not having everything in every expansion done in 1 Month.

Selo's XP is fast enough already to satisfy the original intent the developers had for the server.

This wasn't intended to be an auto-grant server that allows you to raid at max AA week one of every expansion. You still need to, you know, play the rest of the game.

Those of you screaming that it isn't fast enough seem to be looking for an event server that is built around purely raiding. This isn't it, stop pretending it is.

Everyone keeps saying that, but they seem to forget is that Phinny (and Coirnav's) horrid XP rates is what drove a lot of people away. When you are way behind the curve already, and next xpac is about to unlock putting you even further behind you eventually just say "screw it why should I bother", and so cancel sub and head elsewhere.

Will Mangler lose some when/if thry open up new servers next year; of course, but we'll also gain some because at that time we'll be hitting Luclin/PoP and those that are tired of the ultragrind fest Phinny is will move over to Mangler since we are not hitting that portion they wanted to start at anyways.

90% of Phinny quit in the first 2 weeks, Mangler will stay high pop for longer.