The problem with bard..

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by ArrChamp, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. ArrChamp Elder

    When you first start your bard, it is amazing, you can not only do decent dps, but you can tank, charm, mez, slow, so much utility. However, by the time you get in your 40s, your dps sucks... bad. You become an utility class. This is still fun, as slowing mobs, pulling, mezzing, charming, etc is all a fun time in groups.

    The problem appears once you start raiding. Raiding groups want you for your buff songs only. Last TLP I loved my bard so much until I started raiding. In raids, they wanted my buffs on the clerics, which are further back from the fights for safety. Which means, no utility(and dps is laughable anyways), just melody for buffs. Which means I literally just stood there for hours while my bard played a melody and occasionally moved up when the raid did. The most boring class in raids ever. I actually quit the game because I couldn't handle just sitting there doing nothing.
  2. Kunfo Augur

    Would your guild let you box your bard in raids? Bards are the easiest class to raid box for the exact reason you mentioned. You could just autofollow one of the clerics and melody while doing something more active on another account.
  3. Gromden New Member

    It changes in Kunark where bards start pulling open world mobs and their epic makes them good in melee groups. Bards suck in classic but they get better and better as expansions move forward. If your raid is only having you play melody after classic then it's time to find a new raid group.
  4. Weebles Augur

    Yeah. Bards suck in raids. As I’ve mentioned in other threads, sometimes you are optimized by sittin out of melee range with a melody on. Even when you are in melee groups, all you are doing is auto attacking and melody-ing for almost all raid content. It really doesn’t change until you get fade, and then it only changes if your guild correctly lets you assist with pulls. This is why you see so many bard boxes on raids.
  5. HoodenShuklak Augur

    It can be, and in my experience talking to many bards your attitude is quite the norm. But there is a lot of less glorious things you can do to really make an impact. It starts with learning all the songs a bard has to offer.

    Also, tell you guild to put the boxes with the clerics. Most boxes prefer that anyways since it let's them focus on their main. No reason to "waste" a main there if it's avoidable.
  6. Gromden New Member

    You aren't maximizing your bard then and are doing the bare minimum. Either that or your raid leaders suck.
  7. Weebles Augur

    Let’s say you are killing Nagafen in the tank group. You absolutely cannot risk letting your resist and ac songs drop off the tank. In that situation, you are literally optimized by sitting out of line of sight of the AoE’s but still in range of the tank for songs. It has nothing to do with “not maximizing” or “sucking”, it is just reality. Sure, you can joust and poke at the mob in between fears, but the risk of messing up is there... not to mention your 8 dps isn’t even worth the healers’ mana when you take an AoE.
  8. Arrk Augur

    Sure, early bard raiding is lackluster. But once you get a few more skills then it becomes godly. Occlusion and other resists debuffs, group dependant buffing, AE raid songs, pulling, kiting, etc....

    Bard got an all-around toolkit... use it.
  9. ArrChamp Elder


    I am not talking about how useful they are. They are obviously needed and useful. I am talking about how boring they are to play. Sure, if the bard is allowed to kite, that is interesting. Bards are not even an option pulling until PoP comes out and they get enough AAs to get Fading Memories. Even then, it cost 1/3 of your mana to fade, and if you get 3 bad pulls in a row where you need to fade, you are done pulling for the next 30 minutes while your mana regens since you don't benefit from clarity and mana song.
  10. Gromden New Member

    Sure. I even said classic raiding on a bard sucks. Anything beyond classic and there is plenty to do as a bard.

    If you rely on fade to pull then you don't know how to play a bard. It's super simple for a bard to pull starting with open world mobs in kunark. If you can't then you suck as a bard and should try something else. I pulled on LJ non stop on open world mobs. Bards are better than monks for pulling open world mobs starting in kunark.

    It's a L2P issue if you think bards are useless outside of classic. Classic barding sucks but once you hit kunark and beyond they get badass.
  11. ArrChamp Elder

    ok... once again... I am not talking about grouping... Bards are super fun to group with.

    I am talking about most raids where you have to be able to FD or fade the aggro away since zoning the mobs is often not possible and you don't want to die over and over again and end up lvl 1 by the end of the raid.
  12. Kattria Minx Augur

    Our main bards are on pulling duty along with the monks. They do a fantastic job! We still have some box bards for the utility songs though.
  13. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Learn about min-maxing your songs. Create a cooperative environment for bards to pick up certain songs. Cut down on wasted songs. There's a lot of stuff that helps the raid but is overlooked unless you know to look for it. The average raider, and my experience bards too, don't bother.
  14. Bobbybick Only Banned Twice

    Is that a boxed bard performs at 90% of the effectiveness of a mained bard (higher/lower in some cases) and doesn't want it's own DKP.

    In 9/10 situations I would prefer if the bard in my group were boxed by either a real DPS class or the groups shaman so that the bards AAs/Epic is timed correctly for proper burn phases.
  15. EnchFWO Augur


    Do people on TLP not use GINA triggers? :confused:
  16. Bobbybick Only Banned Twice

    Not enough of them.
    Barton likes this.
  17. uk6999 Augur

    I think it comes down to what the bard is doing in the group. If the bard is just there for songs, epic clicks, their poort melee skills then it can easily be boxed however if it is already using a group slot it probably is better as a person unless you don't want to share drops. If you are relying on a bard to pull then that changes things. Any class can pull some do it better than others. I would argue in most situations bard is the best at it in a group format only because it has the utility and speed to make it very effective. This isnt always the case. The same can be said about crowd control not that the bard does it better than anyone else but you need to be on the bard 100% to be effective at it with multiple mobs.

    If your talking about raiding. Bards have their moments in the first few xpacs before fade where they do quite well pulling. Trash in plane of Fear, Hate, Growth, pulling dragons in OW Kunark zones, etc. Situations are limited but they do exist. However with monk popularity the situations are sparse. Most people by now know which songs to play for each encounter while raiding the only downside to boxing in this manner is making sure you are in range all the time, do in's and out's when necessary, dealing with fear/stuns its a bit more to micro manage then just hitting a melody hotkey. I think I was only ever asked a handful of times to assist in mezzing as well across multiple expansions. Even after fade its not like bards are the king of raid pulling. fade has a mob lvl cap based on each aa point you have invested plus it is a mana hog so you wont be chain casting it by any means. You are going to still want monks doing a majority of it.

    I know of Phin way down the road bards seem to be needed less and less because of AE songs and people boxing. I know towards the end of my stint there people only really wanted me to either pull or be there to right click epic 2.0.