How are improved mercs?

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Ghubuk, Feb 14, 2019.

  1. Ghubuk Augur

    Any feedback from test on the merc upgrades?
  2. Belkar_OotS Augur

    So I don't have anything to add directly to this thread. Sorry I haven't played around with it on test.

    I think that instead of across the board sweeping changes and improvements, they should tie the merc builds to the first mercenary achievement of a new expansion that provides bonus stats to just mercs in the appropriate level range.

    Then after the next level increase, they get normal increases for being leveled up, then the next non level increase expansion will provide some invisible to us merc AA to make them adequate for the current expansion and so on. A little like heroic vitality AA but only applies to mercs that are from 106 to 110 etc, so they don't have to constantly rebalance them against content. Just base level + needed extra
  3. Beimeith Lord of the Game

    I don't have exact numbers, but what I remember seeing was like:

    Healer merc gained 15k HP and a similar amount of mana.
    It lost 500 AC but gained 500 evasion.

    Tank merc gained like 50k HP and like 500 AC.
  4. Jondalar Augur


    That seems.... pretty underwhelming.
  5. Astral64 Augur

    Test copy and try it yourself!
  6. Spellfire Augur


    Not improved.
  7. CrazyLarth Augur

    what would make merc better is give all peeps in the group merc EXP even if they dont have a merc out. its play time this lowers the bar about no body has a good merc do to never get a change to use a bad merc to get them better.
    Yinla, Pirlo, Astral64 and 3 others like this.
  8. Metanis Bad Company

    With the number of Merc AA now required to make them worthwhile we players should get control of how much EXP we want to give to the merc. Should add a slider and let us control it directly. I'm tired of burning glyphs when I've still got a crappy nuker that can't burn his way outta a paper bag.
    Elyssanda, Yinla and Pirlo like this.
  9. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    That, or implement auto-grant for merc AA. Somehow, I don't care about the details. I have my merc up all the time, and make 2-3 merc AA a week. Not skills, AA points. It's ridiculously slow.
    Gyurika Godofwar and Fanra like this.
  10. Axxius Augur

    Did they gain any spell mitigation? Trash AE hitting them for full damage really sucks. Those AE's are tuned for players, mercs really need a similar level of spell mitigation.
    Yinla likes this.
  11. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    And will tank mercs make SOME effort to keep all mobs in front of them? That would be a bigger gain than the HPs and AC, IMO.
    Fanra likes this.
  12. Thoxsel Djess' Pet Warrior

    Pure stat upgrades, although it is an upgrade, I don’t see as the major issue. Sure it will help with survivability which is welcomed...

    But it’s their core ai that isn’t built for having to deal with all the dots/aes and major damage output of mobs. Speaking about healer mercs here. I can be fully discing as raid geared war and still feel very dodgy about if I will survive or not. They go on “breaks” from time to time and:eek:r just don’t keep up. I’ve combated this by simply grouping up with real people which perhaps is their goal?

    As for dps mercs they certainly need to do more damage than they are today. But again, maybe they are only supposed to be seen as “better than nothing” and not as close to a “replacement” to a real player as most of us seem to want them to be.
  13. Brohg Augur

    The question is what players they can be seen to replace. There is a number of players that would distress the common ForumQuester for whom DPS mercs, in their current state, are reasonable approximations, to the degree that the typical pro/con attending healer mercenaries would apply: mercenaries 1) never AFK, 2) never whine about mercenaries. That's all their actual upside, but that's enough to supplant a fair portion at the bottom of player ability. Which is not pro-social from a game producer point of view. So mercenaries have to be terrible. Like, just the pits, well-it'll-keep-us-from-just-standing-around-but-oh-god level of "efficacy".
    Gyurika Godofwar and Pirlo like this.
  14. enclee Augur


    Mercs only replace players in groups of 5. Mercs make more grouping happen are more pro-social than anti-social. Anytime, you can make any class mix in a group and still have a healer, tank, or dps that's better for the game. Right now, mercenaries don't promote grouping and social behavior. They just promote <name> <lvl> <class> LFG in general chat, because most players don't make their own groups.
    Fanra likes this.
  15. Shadows Journeyman

    A very fitting typo... That's basically my facial expression every time it happens.
    Yinla and Thoxsel like this.
  16. Ecchicon Elder

    Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but I think that someone once rested it and found that merc avoidance is not impacted by front/back. I’m not sure if that is still the case today, however. For example, my healer merc can repost from the front but not from the back and I don’t know if that is unique to that merc class or how it players out for a tank merc.
  17. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    I can state for a fact that the tank mercs take WAY more damage when mobs are behind them. When I'm able to "passive/active" the merc and get him positioned with all mobs in front, the damage goes down, it's not really even close.
  18. Ninelder Augur

    If your max AA, fully geared, raid buffed tank merc is facing the mob(s) when a light blue con add joins in; he can stay alive for 0.1 seconds. But if your max AA, fully geared, raid buffed tank merc is facing away from the blue con add; then he dies in 0.09 seconds. The difference is subtle, if you blink, then you miss it!

    Now this is the rub, tank mercs in their current form actually discourage grouping. Since they are completely and insultingly useless in their current form, a no-tank-having group has to stack up on healers to compensate for the fact that they are missing a real tank.

    If your tank is a ranger or a monk or a shaman pet, you probably need at LEAST 2 healers to keep them up. If your tank is a zerker or a rogue you probably need a real healer AND 2 merc healers to keep them up. If your tank is anything less than those listed, you would be better off looking for a different game, cause you ain't getting nothing done in EQ.

    If you are a tank or pet class, you probably molo'd 90pct of the expansion. Congratulations on having the gaming skills necessary to excel at EQ, by choosing one of the "correct" classes. If you disagree with this statement I can show you some on-time raid rosters we have had lately where we have FIVE groups worth of tanks show up, half of which are SKs. We often roll out with that as we only have 2 groups of melee and a group and a half worth of casters show.

    This is the result of horrendously bad class balance, and extremely lazy development. But the problem is painfully exacerbated by the merc situation. Since, if we are not raiding there is nothing that half the classes can accomplish to keep them online. Every single one of our clerics has a mage or necro alt, that they spend most of their time on, since its very easy to do most everything they want with a cleric merc at their side. Half the melee and all the tank mains finished TBL progression in the first 3 or 4 weeks, 90pct of the content they easily accomplished with cleric mercs.

    While I two box and use my chanter pet to tank for me, with one real healer and 2 merc healers to keep it up; I often see wizards, rogues and zerkers in guild, ooc and general that are LFG. No one responds to these people. As those classes quite specifically require both a tank and a healer. The only ones that can help them are a real tank class, any of which easily if not dramatically out DPS a DPS merc; and already completed everything a month or more ago.

    Healer mercs are a godsend to some classes, and allow them to race through content. I don't think there is any adjective or adverb that i could describe a tank merc with that would pass the language filter.

    The discrepancy between these two mercs and their utility has been a major problem for a full decade now. I wasted at least 40 hours testing and submitting parses back in SoD to show they were broken. That information, as well as everything else has been pointedly ignored. You are literally herding your bleeding player-base into only playing certain classes.

    This was a really bad decision in 2008, you have had 10 years to see the effects of your mistakes and at least try to correct them. Good luck finding anyone that is gullible enough to believe you tried, or that there is still a chance you will wake up and smell the roses.

    I am thinking we might see a 6 tank group 3 pet class raid this year. That may be an exaggeration, but its more believable than you making a working usable tank merc.
  19. Bobokin Augur

    Lost 500 AC? That improves them?

    As it is, my healer merc aggros way too many mobs. How can they heal me if they are dead?

    I don't know if 500 evasion will help that much, but we will see.
  20. Ninelder Augur

    Healer mercs are already incredibly good off-tanks. I believe the current tank priority is Hagi(evasion)>HP>AC. Now while your healer merc will definitely be able to tank longer, it will hold less agro, as it will no longer have to heal itself as much.

    I have already wasted a thousand to many hours testing the fail mercs. If i see them being used in anything close to current content without requiring max AA, max Gear, raid buffs and 3 healers to keep one up; maybe I will look at it. People tend, not to learn from their mistakes, especially if they keep getting paid to make them. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me... Chain insult an entire section of the player base for a full decade.. I am neither creative nor sadistic enough to imagine the kind of hell you deserve to rot in.