Constructive feedback on Mangler and Selo

Daybreak seriously needs to come up with some form of Heroic for the TLP's. This solves the problem of not enough time to play.
Fast xp encourages the kind of "competition" that has no place in EQ as far as I'm concerned. There is no penalty for using hacks/exploits if you can reroll and be back at it 2 days later.
For those of us that can play 15-20 hours a week, are we supposed to twiddle our thumbs for 2 months?

You might suggest that being able to dedicate that amount of time makes me hardcore and that I'd be better off on the Selo server.
Selo is already setting up to be an absolute cesspit of the usual junk from the same people that pull it on every TLP server. Why anybody else would want to play on that server is beyond me but good luck if you do.

Go to the Selo subreddit
2nd Link down and click on hacking exploiting.
I can't link because it's a forum violation.

That is the true definition of Hardcore, I want no part of that!

Furthermore if I see a bunch of VPN 6 boxes running around, nobody will have to worry about my opinion and you can have ALL my stuff!

I guess its pretty clear where the line is when separating "hardcore" and "casual", it is unlock speeds.

There are almost no threads mentioning the reduced DZ's and increased rare spawns on Selo, and hardly no one is talking about Focus effects being off Mangler until Luclin. Those are both gameplay changes and all the threads are over unlocks.

I think you know where to start devs..

Yeah, seriously. You have 90 billion truebox servers already. That market is completely and utterly saturated. Truebox was originally a (justifiable) reaction to mage armies on Ragefire annihilating raid content to the point where no one else could even play, but that problem is fixed by agents of change, NOT the addition of Truebox code, which is why, surprise surprise, the population of Phinny started diminishing as soon as we got past the eras where Agents of Change were necessary (started in GoD and has continued since then). The explosive success of Phinny had nothing to do with Truebox and everything to do with Agents of Change.

Boxers are your most passionate players. They buy the most mounts. They spend the most krono (removing it from the economy and thus encouraging people to buy more, directly feeding your bottom line). And the fact of the matter is that most of them play just fine with others and aren't disruptive at all. I've been on Ragefire for about a year, and even before we got to fully instanced raid content, there were no inter-guild issues at all. Ragefire is stronger now than ever, thanks to some transfers from Lockjaw and tons of new box crews coming to Ragefire after having been burned out on the silly limitations of Truebox.

Not every progression server needs to cater to boxers, and Truebox servers a valid purpose, but EQ, more than any other MMO, really ends itself to boxing (for those who're into that player style), and it makes business sense to have more than a single progression server supporting that crowd (no offense to Lockjaw, but that server's dying and needs to be merged).

Another non-Truebox TLP is not too much to ask. And given how comically bad the Mangler rule set is, that is the one that should be changed.

The Selo server is good and set as above
Mangler casual server lengthen the unlocks for Xpacs - casual is we are not in a rush for anything but we want to have the time to enjoy and experience as much as we can before we move on or have to move on.

If they don't take the above advice, and keep it the way they are - anybody thought about the crafting aspect of the game which many casuals like - it's pretty dead and buried with the current rule set.

So i get it right, you want to level up with the population and just start at a later expansion. The problem is for the entire population of players that want a Classic start both hardcore and casual, by starting 4 expansions in you essentially miss out on all that content when it is more meaningful. Very few people on a Luclin/PoP start are going to go back and do old raids.

On a classic start server the classic fans get to experience the content they want when its relevant. The players that want to experience the newer expansions have options already on previous TLP's or they can start with the new ones and wait out the new expansions. But the only thing they are missing out on is the bull rush of leveling groups. Plenty of people have started on Cornaiv in Luclin or the other TLP's later on and been just fine catching up. Plus plenty of guilds would be very excited to have new people joining in for the later expansions when the servers population starts to dwindle.

Basically starting at a later expansion robs a group of players of content whereas players jumping in later on in the servers life just means playing catch up but those players still eventually get the experience they want. If you skip classic there is basically no going back.

Whatever Mangle is it has to be non-Truebox, even Phinny players have been complaining about it. Can we please stop forcing people to buy VPN's and mini pc's to multibox on Truebox servers? It's just a frustrating roadblock to what a huge percentage of TLP players want to play as. Folks that really want Truebox have a TON of options at this point.

Agree with this statement as well.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that even upping the experience rate and lowering the experience loss on death won't be enough to get a mass of people to join and stay on the Mangler server.

The Mangler server is essentially a Phinigel/Coirnav clone. There's nothing special about it to represent the fact that it is one of the two EverQuest 20th Anniversary servers.

It needs something to define it as special. The Selo server is special because of the faster experience, faster faction, higher rare rate, and fast expansion unlock. It is a one of a kind server. The Mangler server is not unique (unless you consider the two things that make everybody right now say they are avoiding it; slow experience and harsh death penalty).

The Mangler server needs something GOOD to define it as special like:

• FV loot rules
• Not truebox
• Something

Almost every previous tlp has catered to slow unlock players of both hardcore and casual varieties. Most of the aegument fpr slow unlocks is that casuals cant level fast enough, selos has an answer for that. The key here is that on a fast unlock server with fast exp, those who want to take it slow by choice even though fast exp is there, can do so. But those who who take advantage of fast exp and use it to raid, will be hamstringed by slower unlocks. Coirnav has 3 month unlocks and is only in pop now? If every server is a clone that's not right either. The failure in selos is disregarding the open loot calls.

Every single tlp without exception and one of the two coming out have a classic start. A great many of us do not want it for the same reason none of us want to do our tlping on some live server: people moved on, market is already full of gear, twinks and powerlevelers around, and just an overall lack of community for it.

Anyone who argues for BOTH servers to start in classic is being ridiculously biased.

Agreed totally but
Classic should be 2 months and Kunark 4 months for Casual to experience all an actual Casual would want.
other than that all the rules and times you suggest is correct for all the servers.
Casual server should be true box and HC should be open box - casuals don't want competition whilehardcores want the competition and the race against time.

We need FV Rules on both no matter what!

Honestly, I completely disagree. I think the absolute only thing blocking people from being interested in Mangler is the xp rate. By making 2 servers with odd / unique rulesets you are alienating the crowd of players that just want to do the same old TLP romp.

I know I am not alone in the camp of players who enjoy the basic ruleset of 3 mo unlocks, "fast(agnarr)" xp, AoC, Pick zones, Classic start. I know plenty of people that honestly just want to relive this ruleset every year or so which its been since Cornaiv. Plus many of us skipped Cornaiv due to slow xp rates.

Things like full boxing had tons of complaints when it was out on the earlier servers which leads me to believe they are avoiding it. FV Loot is likely to not show up because of increased RMT concerns etc. Anything that will more than likely increase the number of GM petitions / CS work for Daybreak is a no go.

Basically the ruleset I laid out is what I would consider the most agreeable blanket ruleset. It might not have everything everyone wants and its nothing exciting per se but it should hit most of what everyone wants.

I just started laughing when I read the above.

Reason why RF & LJ died? Mass boxing period.

You can bring AOCs and think that will fix a mass box server but it won't because we all still have to level in regular zones and /picks and mass boxing just consumes that content away.

No one wants to see that garbage anymore on a TLP.

Sure some people abuse true-box, but that tiny % is nothing compared to the show that RF and LJ was.

as a casual, i dont want decreased raid lockouts - meaning i have to raid twice a week the same content
i would rather you just doubled or 50% more the drops from raid bosses and let us clear once a week.
certainly much better xp, 2-3 month releases

YES - I don't think you read through the thread at all - this to my opinion is false the majority of posts on this thread are the opposite of what you have proposed here.

Can someone actually parse the comments and give us a list of common items asked for and opposed I think this would help DBG -

EXACTLY this!! - but you forgot slower unlocks on Mangler Casual Server other than that its perfect.

Selo works for hardcore but you should remove the Map feature and compass (make sense heading important), turn CR back on, greater XP lose upon death, no focus effects until X, etc.

Mangler should be voided and instead actually create a real casual server that open with Classic + RoK, and then every expansion unlocks after 3 months. Keep the same XP, rare and spawn rates as Selo, remove Krono, True-box only, no newb armor and maybe a few other features that actually cater towards casuals.

I think Selo's only real issue deals with the unlock rate and the starting point, which actually effect one another - at least at the start.

The unlock rate seems too fast for casuals, sure everything else is boosted to help players move through these expansions but any slip up (a week off for vacation/sickness/whatever) and you could easily get behind on aa's/levels/gear and you'd have to play a lot to catch up (not really what most people have in mine with respect to it being a causal server. Even bumping it to 6 weeks would be a huge improvement.

The starting point seems highly contentious from a lot of people here, and I tend to agree. I understand the call to start at some point beyond Classic, some people are tired of it and lots of people would like certain races/classes to be in that are not in at the start of classic. I personally would like to see a Kunark start. You get the super popular Iksar race, and more zone to level in, especially for the 45-50 area. And you get all of that without jumping ahead too far (just one expansion past classic).

They also effect one another. 1 month to go from a fresh new character to ending SoL? Hard to see that as casual. I think the later you start, the more time you need before the first unlock.

EDIT: Something else. Alternative characters: Not sure what people have in mind with casuals and alts, but I've always thought casuals usually like to play several toons. Having a longer unlock schedule would allow for some casuals who play a bit more to keep up two or more toons. This could work beyond just pleasing people who have multiple toons. If I'm in a guild who needs a tank or an extra healer for a raid, maybe I can log off my dps toon and log onto what's needed, fill that gap, and the raid can continue. I know as the servers age some guilds have issues with that. Allowing for alts could both make the alt crowd happy while also helping keep roles filled later on which would help raiding guilds as people start to drop off.

Selo is absolutely fine, just call it what it is. Its a fast spaced, hardcore raiding server. You can raid multiple expansions every day of the week as soon as one gear's up enough and levels/aa enough. Everyone cried and moaned about starting in classic again, so there ya go, a Luclin start server.

Mangler's opportunities have been well documented. They have a few ways to play it, simply bump the xp to make it reroll friendly(people will leave selo when they realize they can't keep up, its a hardcore server) or go all the way with it and go super casual.

The simple removal of truebox alone would make this server far more attractive, and that's if none of the above issues are addressed.

Chiming in. Neither server excites me as is. Was semi-looking forward to Selos but I agree with the posters above who think that the unlocks are way too quick and the start point sucks. Rather have longer unlocks than the recent TLPs and a classic start. I won’t be rolling on either server.