Artisan's Prize and raiding...

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Durbah, Jan 27, 2019.

  1. Dawdle Augur

    I have done it twice now and after you do it the first time it's just a time sink. I can see how some classes struggle more with it do to the amount of things you need and places you have to go but you could always just roll a alt. or two. In fact I had to roll two alts just to get this done. Needed a Gnome and a Rogue but had the SHM already.
    If it means anything it's account and character development. I can see how some guilds would want to know apps are pulling their weight and that their members are self sufficient, able to meet the standards of the guild, and keep up with the majority.
    Some guilds might be looking for good players, they might be more laid back but why bring this up on the forums? I wouldn't app you to a guild I was in because even if you had a sound and valid concern the way you are handling this debate is not something I would want to see.
    It takes a long time to catch up with the end game. Perhaps it would be best for you to just join a guild more suited to your progression in EQ. Hard-Core raiding guild playing end game content deosn't want half developed toon seems normal to me. A guild isn't one player and maybe on your own these stats or this sort of stuff doesn't make sense but take all the clerics in this kind of guild and then consider their HStats together. I am sure that when we look at the bigger picture it makes a different and apps are usually the weak leak to begin with but not covering this basic stuff makes you the even weaker link.
  2. Ruven_BB Augur

    I don't have my artisan's prize maxed. Most likely I wont given I play the game for entertainment, and I would rather do something more entertaining than something as boring as hell for my play style. This is the first item in the game that I haven't completed and most likely wont given the absurdity of what is required for the result.

    I play in a guild that is actively raiding current content, has completed the last expansion and had on farm for most of the year, and only a relative few members have maxed out this item. I would be very surprised any guild that has a majority of their members have this item maxed.

    My hats off to the players that have finished this monumental task, and if a guild wants to put it in their requirements, more power to you. However, any guild putting it in their requirements most likely are doing it to say we only take the best, and 9 out of 10 times will waive the requirement given the insanity of the requirement and limited number of individuals that will have it completed.

    Ruven
  3. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    It would be great if someone created a guide on how to get to 300 (or is it 350 needed?) in all the tradeskills necessary for the Artisan's Prize in the easiest fastest cheapest way. I'd love to get my toons tradeskills up to that level and get the Artisan's Prize in a week.

    I know there is EQ Traders but I haven't seen a guide that goes over this using the latest books and stuff. Please let me know if there is one.

    As much as I would like to get the Artisan's Prize, I don't feel it is as important as the player behind the toon. Unless you are in an uber guild that is the top few in the game (and I don't know if it matters even then), I think you would be fine with the usual raid gear and augs.

    Oh, and anyone who is willing to play and pay attention on raids and is a good guildmate is welcome in my guild. We aren't doing the bleeding edge content but we have fun.
  4. BadPallyGuildLeader Augur

    A guild requiring that in an manner makes me throw up a little in the back of my mouth. And for one of the most sought after classes? Please.

    Just go to another guild\server combination where they are starving for clerics with high raid attendance, regardless of the gear, and a good guild will have you more than adequately geared and will have welcomed you to their circle of friends in a few weeks tops.
  5. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    Only 250 in each skill is needed to get the AP. If you want to max it, then yes, you need 350. But a 1200 HME aug (i.e. minimum starting values) is still the best one you'll have.

    The skill required is determined by the Eron's quests. They require 250. The Aid Grimel quests are slightly lower (~220ish), and the EotS can be bought (the turn-ins for it, that is). For the seals, they can all be bought (i.e. made by someone with a higher skill). I don't remember many of the mats for the seals being NO DROP, so anyone can farm what's needed.

    While still not a trivial task, getting to 250 in each skill isn't that bad. The latest guide on EQTraders (which has been there for about 6 years now) is pretty much all you need to get to that level.

    And, yes, it's easy for me to say this since I was over 250 in all the tradeskills when the AP quest came out (except Research, which was a big fat ZERO at the time!). But still, the effort to get all to 250 vs the effort to get all maxxed trophies and all skills to 350 is probably about 10% (maybe less), for an aug with 40% of the final value. That's not too bad.

    For the more advanced stuff, there is all of Adetia's work: http://www.townshiprebellion.com/tradeskills-home

    There's a page on where all of the TS books are (only matters if you've gone to 300 and spent some extra AAs), some guides, and links to Google sheets where you can plug in your /outputfiles and get nice lists of what's left. I've only used this slightly, since I'm taking the "min value is fine, but I'll add a few more recipes and AAs when it's convenient" approach. I finished the AP, did all the books, and between those and whatever I'd already made in the previous 17 years was enough to get the AP from 40% to 50%. I've since then done enough to get it to 56%.

    The only work I've done on it in the last 6 months was to make rank 2 spells for a new heroic SK I rolled. LOL. Research is the worst one to advance, since it takes 54 new recipes learned to get one more skill point in Research. Made almost 80 spells, got 2 research skillups (and that wasn't enough for an AP advancement) :)
    Riou and Fanra like this.
  6. Cicelee Augur

    I once was the highest parser on a current expansion raid with a top five guild. I attributed my parse position to my 51% completed Artisan Prize augment. True story.
    Funk, Tucoh and gotwar like this.
  7. Cadira Augur

    Op never said raiding guild require a max artisans, only that they have it in general.

    With that said I don't know any guild that requires it. I know in MS we don't require it but it shows your dedication and commitment to the game which sometimes reflects the amount of commitment to learn and play your class as well as gear it. It's highly encouraged but if you don't want to do it, dont.

    Machin shin (top 5 guild) would happily take a skilled cleric in our ranks atm with or without the ap.
    Allayna likes this.
  8. Smokezz The Bane Crew

    So far, lots of the top guilds have chimed in saying it's not required for them. Curious. Is this really just a bash on what it takes to get the AP and nothing to do with any guild at all?
  9. BadPallyGuildLeader Augur

    There are one or two guilds in particular where it is "required." It comes under their requirement to have pertinent augs and the infamous "dedication to your character" or "adding to character power" statements. To me, high raid attendance > all in this day and age.
  10. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    Funk, Riou and gotwar like this.
  11. Smokezz The Bane Crew

    Pertinent augs doesn't usually mean specific augs. It USUALLY means don't have a full set of hSTA augs when you're a Rogue, Zerker, Ranger, etc. As for high raid attendance... if you're a terrible player, and play 100% of the time, you're not much use to a high end guild. Even if you have a max'd Artisan's Prize.
  12. Thrillho Augur

    Having the AP is just an indicator for time spent within your character. Machin Shin has several of these items or achievements listed on our application that we use as an indicator for how you spend your time on your character, whether we need to hold your hand during a raid (not ideal), gently guide (more ideal), or just give a general goal to (most ideal).

    Indicators can be items such as the AP, shawl, epic, or various clickies. They can be achievements, like the heroic AAs or conquests. Chances are, someone who has full heroic AAs and all conquests done isn't someone I'll need to give a detailed runthrough to for a mission or raid.

    Having said that, do we take people who miss these things? Absolutely. We have several apps right now, each with different amounts of indicators. One of them has nearly all, and one of them has very few. In either case, these apps will be judged on their performance within their app period - typically how they perform during raids, but sometimes during group conditions too. Having the best gear doesn't mean you're immune to emotes, positioning, or just general stupidity. I've seen undergeared players outperform fully geared players before.

    All of these things only add a small amount to your character. Heroic stats, HME, procs, whatever else. Missing one isn't going to break you. Missing two, meh. Three. Four. All. It'll add up. 1k hp isn't much, but think of the amount of times you've purpled on a raid. It made a difference there.
    Riou and Allayna like this.
  13. Tucoh Augur

    I'd be really surprised if someone with a full set of TBL group gear, most of the top augs, a lot of heroic AAs etc got rejected because they don't have their artisan's prize.

    I wouldn't be surprised at all if some fresh level 110 apped to a guild and was told to work on a bunch of stuff, possibly including the artisans prize.

    Durbah, if you post a Magelo link it would clarify things.
    Metanis, Riou, Allayna and 1 other person like this.
  14. Thrillho Augur

    This is a good point to bring up. AP is something we sometimes recommend people work on, but even as good as it is, there are better things to spend your time on. AP is a huge time-sink. I'd sooner recommend an app complete heroic AAs than the AP. Completing a few of those AAs in an expansion group also gives you other things - relife aug comes to mind. Diamond as well. You can get chase augs and gear, currency for type 5 augs and other things, spells, expeience, etc. Much more useful than farming grey con mobs and running around in pok clicking 200,000 times.
  15. Morthakia Augur

    Strictly looking at stats, if you already have tradeskills at 300, I’d argue that AP is one of the best uses of your time. At 300 in every tradeskill, the AP is something like 75 heroic to every heroic, 150ac, 1500 HME, and a chunk of endurance regen and other stats.

    Heroic stat wise, the difference between raid gear and group gear is about +10 to every heroic per item. The AP alone is like converting every single one of your visible group pieces to raid pieces, even if it is not nearly maxed.

    In terms of guilds requiring it, I could see that being the case for a tank. Simply so few raid slots and every little bit really adds up for tanking mobs. That said, for a cleric, that requirement seems ridiculous to me...
    Riou likes this.
  16. BadPallyGuildLeader Augur


    Would you log in and raid in a situation where the group thought you were terrible? Most people who have high attendance are capable and get that positive vibe that comes from them being sufficiently skilled.
  17. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    I gave it a quick look, and it seems decent. I've bookmarked it to check out later.

    One comment on that page, and the guide(s) at EQTraders.... if you aren't max level in tradeskills, and especially if you're just starting out, think twice about using these guides >IF< you do want to eventually get to a maxed-out AP. Since you'll have to do all recipes (or, at least, most of them) anyway, you may as well do them when they can get you skillups from them. Granted, skilling up will take longer, but you'll save the time on the back-end, once you reach 300.
  18. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    If I gather from what you are saying, in order to reach over 300, you need to know a lot of recipes. So if you use this guide, you will only know a few.

    What I don't understand is why, once you reach 300, you just can't do a bunch of different combines once, and thus learn the recipes. I thought you only have to do a combine once to learn it.

    So, what I'm saying is, I don't understand your concern. True, once you reach 300, you don't get any skill ups from most of the "one off" combines. But considering that every recipe entails looking it up, getting just the ingredients needed to do it once (or maybe just a few since you have to be successful to count?), it seems to make more sense to just get to 300 first and then go through adding the recipes.

    Otherwise, I would think someone would need a list for every tradeskill with every recipe you should do at exactly the proper skill level. So, it would contain hundreds of entries with (examples made up):

    * Once you reach 223 in Tailoring, do Leather Gold Fancy Bracer once (link to EQ Traders recipe)
    * Once you reach 227 in Tailoring, do Silk Silver Fancy Hat once (link to EQ Traders recipe)

    With this list containing every single recipe you need to max every tradeskill.

    If this is the case, has someone done this we can look up?

    Thank you for your input and I hope to update that article with your response (or you can update it yourself, that's what wikis are about):).
  19. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    Nope, you missed my meaning.... or, maybe.

    To get to 300 the fastest, you repeatedly do simple/inexpensive/vendor-bought-mats combines, til they trivial, and then go to the next such recipe, til you get your skill where you want it to be.

    Getting to 300 has NOTHING to do with how many recipes you know. But, once you hit 300 and want to progress from there, then it depends ONLY on how many recipes you know.

    So, if you're eventually going to go through the bother of all the research and gathering of mats for all of those recipes, you may as well do them while you'll still get skillups for them. It's no more research and busy work to do it pre-300 or post-300, so unless you need to be max skill yesterday, just do it all at once.

    You can use the google sheets and other pages I pointed you to, to find out what recipes are needed. Then, to know what order they go in, trivial-wise, you can go to EQtraders, and there's a button under each tradeskill in the upper left which will list every recipe for each skill, with the trivial shown, and sorted by that. So you can know what order to make them in.

    Now, that trivial list on EQTraders also will show combines which don't count towards the list to get you to 350. But, you will use the list from Adetia's info to know which ones to skip.

    Of course, if you just want to get the AP ASAP, then just use the guides to get to 250 the easiest way possible, buy your seals, do Eron's and Grimel's, and get the AP.
    Fanra likes this.
  20. Fanra https://everquest.fanra.info

    Tatanka, I've added a section "Tatanka's advice" to my main Tradeskills article under the Over 300 section, and also mentioned it in Gotcharms's tradeskill guide.

    When you mention the "google sheets and other pages", I assumed you meant Adetia's Tradeskill Emporium. If you meant something else, please let me know and I'll edit your advice section on the wiki.

    Thank you.