Leveling post 50 is horrible.

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Ultrazen, Jan 18, 2019.

  1. Quill Augur

    They're all gear-dependent classes at the level we're talking about (70+). That's why TBM or CoTF give you options to get it in order to level effectively.

    But do try to find the fun in a puny mana pool, little mana regen, and weak or no focii. Bet that is a hoot and a half to level up with.
  2. bigpapa Augur

    heroic toons should come with much better armors at level 85 , like full set of TBM armors and augments .
    they could sell more of the heroic toons imo.

    new or returning players doing some search , can see at level 85 a heroic toon is geared with weak armors and struggle in lv 85 + zones, ** specially gear dependant class **
  3. enclee Augur

    50-65 ain’t so bad but defiant drops are too sparse for getting ready for 65+. So, I think they should remove level restrictions from all buffs and gear. Let people filter down the gear, some might call it trickle down economics...
  4. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    Straw man argument.

    And if you're arguing that other classes are JUST as gear dependent as tanks, you're delusional.

    And I'm not saying you don't ever upgrade gear (hence the puny mana pool being a specious argument. Unless you're letting your gear get 10 levels out of date, your mana/HP/stats are keeping pace to be effective).

    And weak/no foci is another silly argument. Foci follow a template. If you have gear, you have foci.

    There are SO many ways to gear up as you go. All the tier 1 drops from names in every expac are tradable, and you can find them in the Bazaar for reasonable prices, if you're patient. There are crafted options here and there, again, be patient, and keep your eyes open for deals.

    Look, I've been as scrub as you can get in this game, and I've been able to level up without issue. Not as quick as people who group all the time, or raiders, or 6-boxers, but it's doable. The biggest obstacle is KNOWLEDGE. Since I've played for so long, I know where to look for gear options, and where some good hunting spots are, or to take advantage of Teek dailies. And TBM and CotF didn't exist when I was in the levels you're quoting. So, there are other options.
    snailish, Aurastrider and Quatr like this.
  5. Risiko Augur

    For me, it wasn't not knowing what AAs I had and what they did as much as spending enough time using them to get that memory muscle built up on "when this happens" I need to "do this".

    Going to a website and reading about what is there and how most people use it effectively still will not give me the experience I need in using it. Even if I read up on that site, and then went and experimented with it for a weekend, I still would not have the kind of understanding that I would get from spending the next year or more gaining and using them as I level up.

    That being said, that's just from my perspective, and my slow old self lol. Others may be able to spend a weekend experimenting and be fine, but for me I need much more time.
  6. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    I like the pacing of player power in EQ. It makes you feel powerful once you can beat the content. If that's not your thing, either change your approach or change your game.
  7. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    Again, I don't disagree with any of the reasoning. But for me, it doesn't take 20,000 AA worth of time to learn that. And that's almost how many AA you get now from auto-grant. You can learn, and take something free while learning, or you can spend extra effort you don't need to, while you're learning.

    The other factor which comes into play is, the way many classes use their abilities changes as they level, and as they get new abilities (or better ranks of them). I'd rather get to the higher level more quickly, and the full set of tools, and learn to use them all together, rather than learning and re-learning and re-learning as I level (especially with the changes to that muscle memory you refer to).

    However, having said all that, if that's how you prefer to play, have at it, and more power to you.

    PS - almost forgot the other factor, how much you play. For me, I've gotten over 6700 auto-granted AAs, since I was leveling up before auto-grant was a thing. Looking at my AAs (ashamed to say, I keep notes on lots of useless stuff, so I know how many AAs I've earned, and when), I've earned 12,898 AAs during 2015-2018 (this is all besides auto-grant). So, I make about 3250 AA/year. That 6700 I took in auto-grant would take me over 2 years to earn! So, I either wouldn't be 110 now, or I'd have a LOT less AAs. If you play a ton, and make AA a lot more quickly, this becomes less of a factor.
    Quatr likes this.
  8. Risiko Augur

    I agree that everybody should play the way they want to play. If they want to do it faster, great. If they want to do it slower, also great.

    I can see your side of the argument, but it doesn't apply to someone like myself simply because I don't look at getting to max level as quickly as possible as my goal. If someone wanted to just get to max level, and start enjoying the newest expansion as quickly as possible, then what you suggest would certainly be a great option for them because ultimately you are correct that the way you play your character changes as you level up.

    For me though, getting to max level and the newest expansion as quickly as possible is not my goal. My goal is to play through as many expansions as possible along the way (starting around level 70). Right now, I am playing through some of the Secrets of Faydwer expansion. I certainly won't do all of the quests, and I have no desire to do any of the raiding, but I will visit as many of the zones in the expansion as possible, and enjoy earning AAs and levels appropriate for that expansion. Then I will move on to the next expansion.

    So, I mean yea. Both ways of playing the game are viable, and neither way is the "wrong way". It's up to the individual to decide which way they want to play the game.

    I kind of took it from what the OP first posted that he's simply frustrated with leveling beyond a certain level. I didn't take it as he was wanting the fastest way to max level. So, I gave my opinion from my perspective of how I play the game.
    Yinla, snailish and Tatanka like this.
  9. Quill Augur

    Just got Murdunk's Last Stand in two-box, 82 Warrior and 81 Shaman with J1 mercs(healer + melee merc).

    Everything was up-con.

    That one can actually be harder than Into the Temple (b). You can muddle your way through Temple as needed, its more a matter of time there. A lot of things have to go right(or not go wrong) for Murdunk's and pacing is incredibly important given the number of mobs, particularly making sure my Shaman had mana to go the distance, as I had to birddog the merc and make sure the merc didn't go to lunch on me in combination to slowing and ADPS. Then of course there is the random pather that likes to get in the way to throw chaos into the mix. I'd have to check the logs... but the win had me let like three or four go by.

    Fourth try.

    First... 10 mobs but I didn't know the right camp and was setup wrong. I could clearly do this, though.
    Second... ahh... here is the right camp... 20 mobs down.
    Third... 3 down as I got gummed up with the pather saying hello.
    Fourth... win but got it just as things went sideways as I killed the pather early... but he respawned on me late. So it was close.

    But its doable at that level in two-box, which... if you ever did it in-era(and I did), is fairly stunning.

    It wouldn't have been near as much trouble in a 3-box.

    Either way... whats this about the level 75+ game being horrible?
  10. Quatr Augur

    That's pretty much exactly what I have seen when interacting with returnees who were struggling past 50-60. Some didn't understand the importance of heroics and stuck to outdated gear instead of Defiant. Many didn't know where to go to optimize XP/hour or to get level-appropriate gear. Many didn't know how to make plat, so couldn't use the Bazaar.

    The list goes on and on, but it was almost invariably their lack of knowledge that made their progress painfully slow.
    snailish and Tatanka like this.
  11. Ceffener Augur

    OP said the game was fantastic, they said leveling was horrible. For a non boxing player expecting to not just pay for a PL and actually group with other people they are not wrong.

    (They do have issues with failing at 3 boxing).

    But the catch up game for a non boxer would suck completely.
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  12. Quill Augur

    I completely agree. But at the same time its also one of the biggest draws. Some that you learn that you can then turn around and act like you just solved the Kennedy Assassination.


    Sure... spend inordinate amounts of time gearing and xp'ing levels. TBM, in particular, was largely created to help trivialize 75-100 and make it playable faster with less people. It also cleared the road for 100-110. COTF was the , failed version of that that is only notable for the introduction of HA's.

    At least its not the brick to your gear that WoW lollerwaffling you greens or blues better than the best purples at the start of every expansion is. But at some point, gear does have to trivialize, so that people get to the newer content sooner.
  13. So Happy Augur

    You are right on target with this. Maybe they could add a separate package to the cash shop for a nominal fee to get the the armor and enough currency to aug it out at 75 or 85. Make the package available to everyone.
  14. Quill Augur

    They do sell that. It costs $17.99 :D .
  15. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    Just two quick points:

    1 - We disagree on the meaning of "inordinate". For some, if it's not the fastest way possible, it's not acceptable. Many don't mind another route if it takes a bit longer (not double or triple, but longer).
    2 - The TBM/HA route is great, with one huge "but"... the people who struggle the most are almost invariably soloers. They won't be able to do HAs at levels where they aren't trivial yet (i.e. where you can outlevel them). Perhaps I'm mistaken on this, and CotF/TBM HAs are very easy at level 75. I never did any til I was in the late 90s, but soloing them would be a stretch. One or two of the Gribbles, where single pulls are possible, but I had tools to help with single pulls. Not every class has that.

    I'm not saying TBM isn't a great way to go. Just that there are other acceptable ways to do it, that don't take all that much longer.
  16. Quill Augur

    It still takes an inordinate amount of time. I tested it. Played around in SoF and it was just like.. nope. Its not that I couldn't kill stuff there, imo it was just asinine to do it undergeared(and I've played this game long enough to know when i'm on the wrong side of the gear, so it was just a matter of remembering and finding out where to go). Now? I'll go destroy SoF and repave it with transistors if you want :p.

    I don't mind learning AA, but doing it while gimpier than a bazaar trader isn't my bag.

    There may be reasons for that, like Risiko wants to learn the AA and I have no issue with that. I just think he should get the gear that's available to do it quicker. You still learn the class, it just doesn't take you as long, you kill stuff faster, and you make a lot more money from drops.

    And just imo, its a lot more fun to be killing stuff effectively even-con or higher. I see maybe 10 dark blues a day while killing. I'm not exactly speedballing 100 here, it still takes time but at least I cuss a lot less.

    'But'.. they'll struggle everywhere. TBH... this game just isn't made for soloing or moloing.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA... per TBM.. no. They've gotten a ton easier with gear. Level doesn't mean anything I don't think because the HA's seem to generate you of-your-level instances. You'll always be seeing even-con or better mobs for the most part. You either skate or die and that stuff is rough and spikey if you're in Defiant with no heroics. And now that I have T5 mercs in combination with some gear.. its gotten a lot more trivial and smoother. So love having a good healer merc back.

    But its a Progression, and you aim for the stuff you need, and tangible returns are a fun thing. If you want to go do the group content and learn the AA, you then have the tools to do it while getting a lot more stuff done. Its just, to me learning the AA are just one part of the game.. and both itemization and learning how to climb the gear ladder is just as critical, if not more so.

    And just in general, if you want stuff that will gear and skill-check your group... go dive into TBM heroics and see if they paste you all over the walls. They probably will. But you get better. Going out and camping a quest piece in Fort Mech will not really do that.

    Don't even think you can request them without 3 in the group. (mercs count).

    That just comes down to class selection. And most have that in some form or another, its just learning what is available. With a War/Shm there is a lot of virulent paralysis to kick root one mob on a hard(won't break if it lands) timer(like 2 min) while you kill the other(s). If I was using a cleric, probably pacify would be the ticket.
  17. So Happy Augur


    LoL, I guess you mean krono. Why anyone would pay 17.99 for a krono is beyond me. There are numerous sites selling them for 12 bucks or less.
  18. Quill Augur


    Someone had to buy the Krono they're reselling.

    And just in general, I stay away from such sites in the same way I stay away from hookers down in Guadalajara. The price may be cheap, but the next thing you know you're waking up in a bathtub missing a kidney.

    Either way... I get along in game without them.. YMMV.
    code-zero and So Happy like this.
  19. Tatanka Joe Schmo

    @Quill

    Your post has so many inaccuracies and hyperbolies, I don't even know where to begin.

    "gimpier than a Bazaar trader" - what does that even mean? I've seen people in full raid gear in the Bazaar. Gear level and whether you sell in the Bazaar are unrelated.

    "isn't meant for soloing or moloing" - that's your opinion, and many don't share it. I'm trying to help those who walk that path, with ideas that work.

    "Level doesn't mean anything I don't think because the HA's seem to generate you of-your-level instances. You'll always be seeing even-con or better mobs for the most part" - Nope, they cap at the level of the expac they are in. CotF HAs cap at 100, for instance.

    "Don't even think you can request them without 3 in the group. (mercs count)" - yes, you can.

    Whatever. You tell people your way, and I'll let them know there are reasonable alternatives.

    You can level effectively and efficiently post 50, it's not really that hard, you just need to know a few things to make your journey easier. (the original point of this whole thread)

    You CAN use TBM/CotF to gear up as you level, but you don't HAVE to (your point? somebody made that claim in this thread). There are reasonable alternatives.

    Some avenues will be harder if you're solo/molo (and depending on class), or possibly not available to you. But there will still be plenty of content for you, regardless, and you can still make pretty decent progress in leveling.

    Just because path A is quicker and easier doesn't mean path B doesn't exist.
    Yinla, Quatr and Ceffener like this.
  20. Ceffener Augur

    HA's scale...but they are wonky. I just did the 91 daily and I was killing stuff 80% faster than last night at level 90 (no new gear). COTF HA tend to be Dark blue for most con, while TBM is Even/Yellow (with the occasional named casting lv 105 crap at you).

    And like Tatanka says, they cap at the expac they are in.

    You can always gear Hero Journey -> ? -> UF -> HOT -> whatever comes after I don't remember, it's not that TBM is much better than those (some stats like AC it is not) TBM is just the easier way to gear via bazaar.
    Outlander Engine likes this.