TSS Headshot Proc Rate

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Varu, May 3, 2018.

  1. Bewts Augur

    I don’t know why you’re upset about HS... it’s usefulness is almost as limited as bind wound. The niche for HS is such an insignificant component it doesn’t merit the pixels I’m taking up typing this...
  2. HappyPanda Augur

    Pre-patch, Rank 1 Headshot with PoTime gear seems to be just under 2ppm.
    Post-patch, it appears to be about .20-.25ppm.

    I don't think it was intended to fire once only every few minutes with raid gear at Rank 1, but can't be sure unless a Dev weighs in.

    It seems like the existing rate of 2ppm was actually close to what the Devs intended as mentioned earlier in the thread.
    [IMG]
  3. Elite_raider Augur

    Rogue assasinate is arround
    .20-.25ppm after the patch, don't be surprised if they come out and say that HS was intended to be that way to after the patch.
  4. Machentoo Augur


    Raid geared, in the context of that patch, means live raider stat levels. At the time of that patch, they had two progression servers, both in SoF, both with very low populations at that point compared to live. They weren't even fixing major broken issues on the TLP's at that point, at least not promptly (that same month, when we beat SoF, we didn't get a barrier broken message due to a bugged extra non existent event being listed in their requirements list. Took them almost a month to fix, even though it stopped our server dead in its tracks.)

    Needless to say, in those days, the patch notes were not written with the TLP players in mind. They likely didn't even consider the issue that level 65 TLP characters could be "raid geared."
    Ryak likes this.
  5. HappyPanda Augur

    That may be true, but they are fixing TLP issues now quite regular.
    SoF people would have been beyond ranks 1-4 of headshot anyway at that time.

    In this case it would make more sense to make it scale properly as people go through PoP, Gates, OOW, DoN, DoDH, PoR, and finally TSS and beyond when they can finally upgrade to rank 5+ where it sounds like the tuning was intended to be more accurate.

    This change could be working as intended anyway, I have only been advocating that they take a look and make sure that it is doing what they want it to as sometimes these things don't end up working in reality like they did on paper.
  6. Machentoo Augur


    Yes, they are, but you can't take patch notes from four years ago and extrapolate a meaning that wasn't intended. It is set at 2 ppm with 1000 dex and 500 hdex, or whatever live had at that point, not 2 PPM with potime gear. That was what they intended, and it is probably working as they intended now with this patch.

    Should they up it? Maybe. Probably, in my opinion. But it is probably working as intended currently.
  7. Croak Augur

    There is part of the calculation being missed here.
    On Fippy I PLed a ranger up to 80ish and then swapped back and forth between PLing with my SK and testing HS (this was during UF and HoT)
    He was in good group gear for level.

    What mattered the most with HS, say in Field of Bone, was whether the mob was being tanked rather than rooted, because then the HS can crit. Requiring 1HS plus a little bow normal DPS, rather than 2 HS plus bow DPS to kill a mob was really significant.

    So I would actually tank the mobs with my SK, and HS with ranger out of group.

    When the ranger was up to lv90 his HS DPS in appropriate HoT zones was really useful in group, higher than his melee DPS especially as I was boxing so not optimal on ranger melee, but only when mobs were being tanked.
  8. Baldur Augur

    The damage done by HS has nothing to do with how often it procs.

    In all the current eras on TLPs, PoP to TSS, 1 HS proc on group mobs is enough for them die, tanked or not.
  9. Croak Augur

    Yes and that will change, but it should change sooner.

    You currently can HS lv70 mobs, with SoF that will be up to 76, and with SoD up to lv82.
    From then on HS maxes out 1 level below max level for the expansion, typically making it viable for T1 & maybe T2 of that expansion.

    Your HS currently is being restricted to significantly lower level content. HS will be next to useless in current TBS zones on Phinny.
    It isn't the proc rate that needs to be adjusted (well maybe slightly so it works out to 2/min with raid gear) but so that it can be used in lower tier content of a current expansion more.

    e.g.
    Move Rank 8 of HS to TSS
    Move Rank 9 of HS to TSS or TBS
    Move Rank 11 of HS to SoF
    Move Rank 14 of HS to SoD or UF
  10. HappyPanda Augur


    That would likely be an increase many times over, "slightly" is probably not the best descriptor at that point.
  11. Croak Augur

    Not at all, it is bringing it more into line with how they balanced it for live servers, which was likely their primary goal.
    The ranks of HS I have said should be moved are available at the appropriate level on live servers. They are locked behind 1 or more expansion releases on progression, thus inflating negative aspects of the HS changes for progression.
    Even at 1 proc per min, if your grp is killing 1 mob every 30 seconds normally, a HS would still wipe out 45% of the hps of a higher level mob every 2nd pull, and a percentage of those would wipe out 90% if mob is tanked.

    You are far more likely to get an adjustment that is in line with how HS is envisioned to work on live servers, than to make it better for soloing rangers.
  12. Delora Journeyman


    Do you have parses somewhere to back this up? Seen rangers go 6k+ dps on wulfnor on several occasions with mana flare. Rangers seem to be in a good spot, haven't seen bards go that high but /shrug
  13. Baldur Augur

    Well, if you didn't believe me in TSS, you will in TBS. With Jonathan's, bards are going to consistently outparse rangers in TBS. We had bards in the top 10 all night last night on almost every fight. And at least 1 fight where a bard was #1.

    Also have no idea how you think rangers are in a good spot, if they get the perfect group, with a bard playing cold and fire song and aria, shaman, zerker, manaflare, they will work their off and be happy to barely make the top 10.
  14. Delora Journeyman

    Again, can you post a parse to back your claims up? I have a bard and I've seen what Jonthan's can do so maybe you have a point now. It sounds more though like your argument is that bards are broken, not rangers. Hybrids aren't supposed to be the #1 DPS class so bumping rangers up just makes things more broken. We've had a ranger that was #1 on fights on several occasions, and yes we give that ranger every ounce of ADPS (though I don't think cold/fire song was playing). Shorter fights do seem to favor them. Before the reply starts rolling in with "well your zerkers/rogues must suck then," let's keep in mind that all "melee" just recently got nerfed (hint hint)
  15. Baldur Augur

    Our rangers never get much adps, and tbh, we don't have the greatest rangers either, so I'm sure they can parse better than this, but here's parse from 3 brothers event last night:

    Combined: Hufdan on 8/16/2018 in 326sec

    Monk
    --- DMG: 912656 @ 2800 sdps (2808 dps in 325s) [5.34%]
    ------ Total: 912656 -- Crush: 345937 -- Punch: 231831 -- Kick: 138959 -- Strike: 132137 -- DirDmg: 61680 -- Environmental: 2112
    ------ Normal rate: 86.4% (70.7% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 13.6% (29.3% of DMG)
    ------ Attempts: 2759 -- Hits: 2207 -- Misses: 499 -- Defended: 53 -- Accuracy: 81.6%
    --- DMG to PC: 20918 @74dps

    Bard
    --- DMG: 828295 @ 2541 sdps (2743 dps in 302s) [4.85%]
    ------ Bard:
    --------- Total: 819139 -- DirDmg: 523223 -- Crush: 267761 -- Kick: 21265 -- DoT: 6600 -- Environmental: 290
    --------- Normal rate: 84.6% (57% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 15.4% (43% of DMG)
    --------- Attempts: 1263 -- Hits: 1037 -- Misses: 169 -- Defended: 57 -- Accuracy: 86%
    ------ Bard`s pet:
    --------- Total: 9156 -- Hit: 9156
    --------- Normal rate: 100% (100% of DMG)
    --------- Attempts: 270 -- Hits: 152 -- Misses: 105 -- Defended: 13 -- Accuracy: 59.1%
    --- DMG to PC: 3010 @17dps

    Monk
    --- DMG: 716262 @ 2197 sdps (2204 dps in 325s) [4.19%]
    ------ Total: 716262 -- Punch: 453743 -- Strike: 112881 -- Kick: 89528 -- DirDmg: 59150 -- Environmental: 960
    ------ Normal rate: 85.2% (69.4% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 14.8% (30.6% of DMG)
    ------ Attempts: 2424 -- Hits: 1928 -- Misses: 437 -- Defended: 59 -- Accuracy: 81.5%
    --- DMG to PC: 5708 @21dps

    Warrior
    --- DMG: 668480 @ 2051 sdps (2076 dps in 322s) [3.91%]
    ------ Total: 668480 -- Pierce: 620468 -- Kick: 30940 -- DirDmg: 13096 -- Environmental: 3976
    ------ Normal rate: 66% (35.5% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 29.1% (50.5% of DMG) -- Crippling rate: 4.8% (14% of DMG)
    ------ Attempts: 783 -- Hits: 621 -- Misses: 162 -- Defended: 0 -- Accuracy: 79.3%
    --- DMG to PC: 51105 @180dps

    Bard
    --- DMG: 661960 @ 2031 sdps (2049 dps in 323s) [3.88%]
    ------ Bard:
    --------- Total: 659141 -- Slash: 379764 -- DirDmg: 259380 -- Kick: 19997
    --------- Normal rate: 84.6% (63.9% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 15.4% (36.1% of DMG)
    --------- Attempts: 1288 -- Hits: 1025 -- Misses: 208 -- Defended: 55 -- Accuracy: 83.1%
    ------ Bard`s pet:
    --------- Total: 2819 -- Hit: 2819
    --------- Normal rate: 100% (100% of DMG)
    --------- Attempts: 96 -- Hits: 50 -- Misses: 44 -- Defended: 2 -- Accuracy: 53.2%
    --- DMG to PC: 1402 @5dps

    Bard
    --- DMG: 646998 @ 1985 sdps (2022 dps in 320s) [3.79%]
    ------ Bard:
    --------- Total: 638004 -- DirDmg: 261682 -- Crush: 177633 -- Slash: 167246 -- Kick: 23043 -- DoT: 8400
    --------- Normal rate: 86.6% (60.3% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 13.4% (39.7% of DMG)
    --------- Attempts: 1264 -- Hits: 1023 -- Misses: 202 -- Defended: 39 -- Accuracy: 83.5%
    ------ Bard`s pet:
    --------- Total: 8994 -- Crush: 5432 -- Hit: 2502 -- Bash: 610 -- DirDmg: 352 -- Kick: 98
    --------- Normal rate: 99.6% (98.5% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 0.4% (1.5% of DMG)
    --------- Attempts: 436 -- Hits: 231 -- Misses: 174 -- Defended: 31 -- Accuracy: 57%
    --- DMG to PC: 5485 @28dps

    Paladin
    --- DMG: 625874 @ 1920 sdps (1932 dps in 324s) [3.66%]
    ------ Total: 625874 -- Slay: 278441 -- Slash: 255484 -- DirDmg: 86999 -- Environmental: 4950
    ------ Normal rate: 84.1% (80.3% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 13.8% (14.8% of DMG) -- Crippling rate: 2.2% (5% of DMG)
    ------ Attempts: 651 -- Hits: 509 -- Misses: 118 -- Defended: 24 -- Accuracy: 81.2%
    --- DMG to PC: 56248 @318dps

    Bard
    --- DMG: 605167 @ 1856 sdps (2031 dps in 298s) [3.54%]
    ------ Bard:
    --------- Total: 589932 -- DirDmg: 269460 -- Crush: 159158 -- Slash: 142328 -- Kick: 18770 -- Environmental: 216
    --------- Normal rate: 83.2% (67.2% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 16.8% (32.8% of DMG)
    --------- Attempts: 1255 -- Hits: 963 -- Misses: 229 -- Defended: 63 -- Accuracy: 80.8%
    ------ Bard`s pet:
    --------- Total: 15235 -- Crush: 12251 -- DirDmg: 1232 -- Bash: 1063 -- Kick: 689
    --------- Normal rate: 100% (100% of DMG)
    --------- Attempts: 759 -- Hits: 420 -- Misses: 248 -- Defended: 91 -- Accuracy: 62.9%
    --- DMG to PC: 20493 @70dps

    Monk
    --- DMG: 593278 @ 1820 sdps (1939 dps in 306s) [3.47%]
    ------ Total: 593278 -- Claw: 389932 -- Kick: 80258 -- Strike: 76267 -- DirDmg: 45025 -- Environmental: 1796
    ------ Normal rate: 84.4% (66.4% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 15.6% (33.6% of DMG)
    ------ Attempts: 2301 -- Hits: 1787 -- Misses: 433 -- Defended: 81 -- Accuracy: 80.5%
    --- DMG to PC: 5226 @18dps

    Ranger
    --- DMG: 230328 @ 707 sdps (715 dps in 322s) [1.35%]
    ------ Total: 230328 -- Pierce: 113077 -- Slash: 77698 -- DirDmg: 28615 -- Kick: 8627 -- Environmental: 2311
    ------ Normal rate: 85.8% (67.6% of DMG) -- Critical rate: 14.2% (32.4% of DMG)
    ------ Attempts: 986 -- Hits: 761 -- Misses: 174 -- Defended: 51 -- Accuracy: 81.4%
    --- DMG to PC: 27996 @130dps
    --- Special: X
    Produced by GamParse v1.6.0.13
  16. Delora Journeyman

    Ranger -vs- Combined: Hufdan: -- DMG: 1045400 -- DPS: 1972 -- Scaled: 1965 -- Slash: 398991 -- Crush: 256898 -- DirDmg: 145321 -- Hit: 138150 -- DoT: 65516 -- Kick: 40524 -- % dmg as normal: 56.2% -- % dmg as critical: 43.8% -- Non-crit rate: 79.8% -- crit rate: 20.2% -- Attempts: 2624 -- Hits: 2199 -- Missed: 413 -- Defended: 12 -- Accuracy: 84.2% -- Avg Hit: 475 -- Max hit: 3843 -- DMG to PC: 600

    Ranger in our guild on 3 brothers though this was a 532s fight so possibly lower dps due to longer fight

    The most telling parse though is a full burn
    Ranger -vs- Wulfnor the Gladiator: -- DMG: 836946 -- DPS: 6021 -- Scaled: 5694 -- Hit: 638995 -- DirDmg: 183116 -- Slash: 8872 -- Crush: 4127 -- Kick: 1836 -- % dmg as normal: 24.5% -- % dmg as critical: 75.5% -- Non-crit rate: 51.8% -- crit rate: 48.2% -- Attempts: 381 -- Hits: 353 -- Missed: 28 -- Accuracy: 92.7% -- Avg Hit: 2370 -- Max hit: 8220 -- DMG to PC: 0

    Maybe someone else can chime in here but 6k dps over 139s doesn't seem like a "bad spot" to be in.
  17. Croak Augur

    Damage types of the parses don't match :)
  18. Delora Journeyman

    yes I hoped my "hint hint" was a little more obvious but apparently it wasn't. The burn parse was with a bow
  19. Baldur Augur

    I'm curious to know what weapons that ranger has. We haven't gotten much weapons in TSS. Excited for TBS raids, hoping for more weapons.

    I'm not a ranger, I have an alt ranger that I'm disappointed in how TSS affected his dps, it really didn't. Jolting kicks is crap, summers dew is decent I guess, and heartshot is next to worthless.

    That 3 brothers parse would have put your ranger 7th on our parse, which isn't terrible. That wulfnor parse would have had the ranger #1 on our parse, which seems crazy to me. Didn't realize trueshot was still that good, don't think our rangers ever use it anymore.
  20. Delora Journeyman

    2.5, Zit 1HB and the AG:north Bow. IIRC he didn't start bowing on his parses until he got the AG bow. Also bow damage was not affected by the melee nerf I believe.