Technical question

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Aurastrider, Jul 30, 2018.

  1. Aurastrider Augur

    First off lets not start a new thread that is going to get nuked by debating what is and isn't allowed. This is for those of us who truly have zero knowledge about how programs actually work. So could someone who understands the following and can explain each with maybe some examples do so for the rest of us who are at a 1st grade level when it comes to how programs actually function.

    "Third party programs that work by reading logs (from the /log command) or by reading the generated output files (from the /output command) are generally okay to use. Results of these programs must be displayed in a non-client window.

    Third party programs that alter the client directly are also not okay; this is why the above states that programs must present their displays in non-client windows/formats."

    Again this is meant to be an informative thread for those of us who don't understand the mechanics behind programs. Addons are great for games like this. They provide a better user experience and free advertising for the game considering the makers of said addons promote the brand. I as many others just don't want to get caught with what seems like a seemingly harmless addon that in fact violates the above rules and get banned.
    Daedly likes this.
  2. CrazyLarth Augur

    "Third party programs that work by reading logs (from the /log command) or by reading the generated output files (from the /output command) are generally okay to use. Results of these programs must be displayed in a non-client window.
    well mumble has some type of over lay that can be over EQ window.
    But I don't see that as a big deal it does not read the log its separate to EQ but it does show the ability to over lay ( I turn mine off) if you would like an example which is what I think your asking.
  3. strongbus Augur

    Ones that read log files and put the info in non eq windows are programs like gampars and ginna that read the log file that is a running file of everything you see on screen. they don't do a thing for you besides take that info and put it to good use. Ginna is a auto trigger program much like the ingame auto trigger. Just its one that you can do more with(such as add a timer for a dot or when a debuff is going wear off) gampars just takes the info on what damage is done to a mob and tells you what your dps was vs others.these are displayed in a non eq window that can be setup to display over you eq game.


    one alter the client are ones that change how eq is run. examples are ones that let you wrap to any zone or see what a mob has for loot or makes it so you can't be effected by different parts of the game. such as being rooted/snared. or ones that might take your alts(boxes) and turns them into mercs. Thus you don't have to play them the program dose.


    .
  4. kizant Augur

    Gina, Gamparse, that one tradeksill parser, etc are all fine.

    At least one application and others like it are super banned and you'd have to be an idiot to think they'd let you use it if they had a choice. They directly access memory space of the EQ client. There's zero grey area here.

    It all comes down to that one stupid application people use to box. It 'technically' doesn't modify the client but it does interfere with the client communicating with the O/S. The only way you're going to find out if they intend to start banning it is to use it and find out.
  5. Millianna Augur

    What about software provided by companies such as Corsair? What about sending keystrokes to a window not in focus?

    There are no rules - they can use ‘third party program’ and ban you for anything.
  6. Wizlard Augur

    That "stupid application" does not violate anything in the new statement. The only way to find out if you will be banned for it is by reading comprehension.
  7. svann Augur

    I dont see a question there. What part is it you are having trouble with?
  8. kizant Augur

    That's not what I've heard.
  9. Daedly Augur

    For instance, do the ones that read log files to provide overlay alter the client? Is the overlay separate from the EQ client or do they interact? How does the overlay stay on top and yet still allow the ability provide input to the EQ program behind it?

    Maybe some of us just being paranoid, and hopefully so. However it would be nice to know these kinds of things and I am sure there are folks on these boards that can answer questions like that.
  10. Wizlard Augur

    Well, it surely wasn't what you read.
  11. svann Augur

    1 No
    2 yes separate
    3 you need to run eq in windows mode - beyond that I cant say how it stays on top. windows function id guess
  12. Dreadmore Augur

    • Client: This is the program that is running on your computer that plays the game. When you click your EQ shortcut icon, it runs eqgame.exe, which is the client. It is called the client because it is running on your side, the client side, as opposed to the...
    • Server: This is the side that is running the whole world that all other clients (players) connect to.
    • Some things are handled on the client side, while others are handled on the server side. There are no hard rules as to what does what exactly in all client-server scenarios, but in general, anything that needs to communicate with the world needs to send a message from the client to the server. For example:
      • If you /con something, it needs to ask the server what level that thing is, and then that message comes back to your client, and maybe the processing to determine if that thing is dubious or kindly, a gamble or trivial, is done on the client side; or maybe it's done by the server. The former puts more stress on your computer; the latter on the server.
      • If you are resizing a UI window, there's no need for the server to know that because it's irrelevant to the state of the world and other people's gameplay, so it remains a client-side action only.
      • Your browser (the client) goes to https://forums.daybreakgames.com, asking the forums.daybreakgames.com server to give your browser all the content of the forum to be displayed so you can interact with the forum.
    • "Anything that alters the client directly" is somewhat clear, but of course can be open to interpretation. If you open EQ through the launcher directly without running any other applications, look at all of that behavior, and that is what is considered OK. If you run any other application that does not change how this behaves at all, that is OK. For example:
      • I could use GINA and Gamparse. They read text outputs from the client, which are in a TXT file at that point, so they do not do anything to the EQ client.
      • I could open a browser and watch YouTube. I could put that browser window in front of the EQ client, and that's fine. It doesn't do anything to the EQ client. Similar to the GINA overlays--they are just in front of the EQ client, but don't do anything with it.
    • Some things that would alter with the EQ client:
      • Ultra fast run speed. Let's just imagine walking in the world is calculated by your run speed multiplied by how long you held down a movement key, and assume this is all calculated client-side. If a 3P program were able convince your client that your run speed were actually ten times what it should be, then you'll be walking ten times faster than other people.
      • Giving access to secret commands. Let's say there's a /kill command that lets you slay anything immediately, but is normally only available if you run a special debugging version of EQGame.exe. But maybe all it is is some secret setting in the code, and the 3P program turns this setting on. Now you can /kill whereas previously you had to reduce an NPC's health to below zero with damage.
    • Where is the confusion? What does "alters the client directly" mean and why is it being debated? There are some applications that act as the "middle man" between the different parties involved. While these don't alter the client directly, they most certainly have an effect on the gameplay.
      • Key/click broadcasters. Normally, only the window you have focus on is able to receive your key presses. You can open two browser windows, but you can only type a URL into one of them at a time. You only have one cursor so you can only click one thing at a time. But broadcasters act as a middle man and can send them to multiple windows at the same time. Let's say you have ten wizards, and you press the 1 key once, and it causes all of them to nuke their target--that's a big advantage over having to press the 1 key ten times, once on each client window, right? Even though it isn't altering the client... or is it? It's altering the messages you're sending from the keyboard to the client and giving you some advantage, but is it altering the client?
      • What if something intercepts the messages between the client and the server? Let's say I'm the client. I send a message to you, the server. I have a weapon with a base damage of 100 and am autoattacking, but the messenger lies to you and tells you that my weapon's base damage is 10,000--you just take my word for it and totally destroy my target. That's very obviously cheating, but it isn't altering the client... or is it? It's altering the messages sent by the client and giving the player some advantage, but is it altering the client?
      • I've seen dozens of PCs moving about and around very unnaturally, very robotically. Quite obviously these PCs were being played by a computer, not by a real human. In order for these 3P programs to know exactly how to move a character around, it needs to be able to input its own commands to the client, and it needs to know the state of the world (probably by intercepting and interpreting the messages from the server meant for your client only). Imagine again I am the client, you are the server. I am too lazy to communicate with you myself, so I hire some dudes to pretend to be me and do all my work for me, writing my messages to you in my name and reading your messages addressed to me. Again, not altering the client directly, but so, so obviously cheating.
    IblisTheMage, Venau, Coagagin and 4 others like this.
  13. Aurastrider Augur


    Not sure if this is sarcasm or you truly don't know what I am asking. As someone who has zero knowledge of how addons or any programs for that matter works I want to try and gain some knowledge so I can try to avoid using something that might be considered against the rules even if all I am wanting to do is use a feature in said addon that in no way shape or form would be considered against the rules. I am a firm believer that knowledge is power and I want to be educated so I can avoid using something that I will regret even if I have no intentions in doing something that would be considered harmful to the game. I don't like getting hung up on technicalities which is where I think a lot of players who are also not computer/software savvy are frustrated by a technical response. If a technical response is what we have to work with I will accept it but I also want to understand what it all means. I get the logical don't afk kill, use scripts to bot, god mode, weird map things, warping and common sense crap which I am against. Its the don't use programs that function in xyz way that I don't understand.
  14. Mediik Augur

    If my accounts get banned. I’ll report back. Then everyone can know :)

    That said unless Dayabreak chimes in on this thread, its all speculation.
  15. Ghubuk Augur

    If you aren't doing any of that, you will be fine. And the whole hitting one keypress to get 10, 20, 30 etc characters to do something is dicey as well.
  16. I_Love_My_Bandwidth Mercslayer

    Threw some sunshine down on that one!
  17. Coagagin Guild house cat

    A 'Wall of Shame' listing the programs already banned would be helpful if not outright insightful. And no, I have nothing to worry about outside of my technical curiosity. I am a senior InfoSec practitioner in real life so the idea of abusing IP and software in general is professionally driven.

    - Coag
  18. Angahran Augur


    Good luck getting a list :p
    I can't even get them to clarify what counts as AFK.
    They state that you cannot do ANYTHING while not actively at the keyboard but then say that it's ok for bards to /melody while afk and anyone to swim afk in a corner in order to skill up.

    Technically, if you were fighting a mob, tabbed out to a browser (for example), and the mob died, they could ban you for AFK gameplay!
  19. Millianna Augur

    I would also like to know counts as afk. When I box my Bard, all I do is play melody (hardly ever alt tab to him). By their own definition, this is afk killing and banable... Similarly, I could be PL a toon with merc up... bam get banned for afk killing....
  20. Derka Power Ranger

    It's always great reading people trying to justify botting or any program that gives you an advantage. If you think what you're doing can get you banned, it probably can. Be smart, obviously Gina or gamparse or voice chat overlays don't matter. Would be great if they just disabled attack/spell casting/experience as soon as the AFK tag hit but that would hurt people not doing "unattended gameplay" and people farming old gray con mobs for TS mats. And people raising weapon skills on pets.