Would you prefer if trash mobs had more HP?

iblisTheMage is using I_S_B_O_X_E_R and good at it, I have no problem with that , I am not sure he would ask for more hp on mobs if he was not using that 3rd party software,

anyway, do I want to have mobs to have more hp, when my shaman , druid and chanter got their dots nerfed that hard and already killing mobs slower now due to these nerfs ,

I am not sure I would want that..........

For the solo/molo game the trash mobs in ROS are about right, especially the golem mobs. The ones in ST have about 30M hp's. As for grouping? Everything dies way to quick. But that's the direction the game has headed. A major change to the mobs would make some people quit. EQ just doesn't have enough people playing to make a major move which drives players away.

In the EQ universe there is still a short period of time which the game is about right. When a new expansion gets released. The mobs are usually a little tougher and the old equipment isn't quite good enough to mass kill everything quickly. (group players) After a little bit, people gear up and it becomes the same old thing. Mass killing as quick as possible.

One suggestion that's been mentioned is ramp up most of the mobs and have some which are much weaker for the solo/molo crowd. To me those are the children's table mobs. An insult. I've always stayed away from those mobs because they're insulting and incredibly boring. The only time I fight those if I need to kill them for progression. As someone who likes to solo/molo I prefer to go after the regular trash and fight named mobs. I like to push my mage as for as possible.

There's really no difference between high and low hp mobs beyond the fact that low hp ones negate several class abilities. If you're killing a constant stream of mobs, it doesn't matter if you change targets or not. You're still hitting the same buttons. What higher hp mobs allow, however is for zones to support more people without lag inducing density. They allow dot classes like necros to be of more value in groups. They potentially make debuffs actually worth using in group content if a group gets overrun. Exp, drops, etc are all easy enough to retune based on expected kill rate.

The main argument against I constantly see is that longer fights are boring. Are those people seriously just killing one or two than doing nothing until they respawn?

I have read some really good points against more HP, especially the part about that it is important to make sure the game is fun for everyone.

However, there are some assumptions that I would like to comment on, since I see them in a different light.

1) I don’t think it would be harder. I think that, if done correctly, it would provide the same xp pr hour, available at all power levels. It would reduce the number of pulls pr hour. I am not talking about a “golemification”, but of a “doublesarnakification”, where mob dps is the same, but hp and xp is doubled. Under certain circumstances, it would be easier.

2) I don’t think it would be elitist. I understand that some people with very high dps might like it, but I am quite sure some people across the dps spectrum would like it as well. I get more tired with the constant high speed pulling, and playing at a lower pace would be somewhat soothing or relaxing.

3) I think that it could be inclusive, giving dotters, pullers, and cc’ers some of their gameplay back.

4) Alliance is not in the picture really when boxing trash, not even on golems. On nameds it can be used, but I see it as castworthy mainly in raiding.

5) I am currently spending my scarce EQ time raiding, mostly. I have joined a great Casual/Raiding guild on AB, we are very fra from being uber and elitist. I in no way see myself as uber or elitist, obviously. I am a casual gamer, and I often spend more time on ForumQwest than ingame. But even if I spin up my box again at a later point in time, I don’t see how this gives me a narrow and only self serving perspective in this question. I am much better served with the game being as fun as possible for as many as possible, because more players aka customers means better and more content. I really believe it would be more fun for more people.

6) I am not arguing that it should be a restriction, I am arguing that it should be an offer. If you like this playstyle, go to this zone. If you don’t, go to that zone. I am thinking that as long as people can freely choose, and are not forced to it, then it is a suggestion with no loosers.

@bigpapa: thank you, but I must say that I consider Tucoh to be a much better IS Boxer than I. I am really struggling in for example HS.

Thanks all for voicing opinions. It is not as if this is a real thing, it is just FQ fun.

Couple of glaring issues:
1st

2nd

3rd

4th

(Refer to 1st)

You can do all this without any adjust to mob HP's currently. Don't use ADPS, don't box more than 2 or molo, use alt/tab if you cannot function without outside help......And you honestly believe it can be done anywhere near correctly??

Yes, Necros will just tell their groups that they aren't allowed to use ADPS and that they can't have more than 2 total characters. Problem solved, Necros will be good in groups again

I disagree with the focus on a single use case that I have previously focused on a lot in my playstyle, and with the focus on my average and irrelevant person.

Let me give an example of a different use case: the necro revamp thread (Casters subforum) contains a number of references to necros being unwanted in groups, because the things that they are good at (pulling, dotting, cc-ing) is no longer in demand in the group game.

And yes, I have a lot of faith in the EQ team at DB, I believe it to be world class.

I've been in both kinds of groups since RoS went live; both high dps, quick killing groups that usually play together and slower, LFG groups that really don't know each other, but are trying to get past things. Increasing mob hp does little to one of them, and severely hinders the enjoyment of the other one. I'd be opposed to a major scaling up of mob hp specifically because of the detrimental effect it would have on the latter group of players.

As it is, when I'm in the former group and we have an open group spot in Sathir's or even Gorowyn, we're sometimes loathe to drop a box or mercenary since we don't know what they're bringing to the group. How's their gear? I've been in a group with a 101 cleric wearing VoA group gear, very distressingly recently. Do they know their class, or have they been powerleveled? Honestly, I don't mind powerlevelled characters as long as they know their , I don't want to have to ask a ranger to use jolt or wonder where Announced Shots is as the knight. Can they heal better than a merc? Distressingly, the answer is usually no, I can count on one hand the amount of LFG healers that can in the past couple of years - after cleric maining for a few years, I'm a bit of a healer snob. Do they have Essence of the Dragon, or are they going to need to take a break after the inevitable Kar'Zok? Sure, you can pull around them most places, but at Earth Love camp, you're going to have at least a couple every spawn cycle.

All increasing mob hp does is create a situation like WoW where people demand a gear score before invite, only in this case it'll be a Magelo check.

I would prefer slower kills. The first 60 levels are especially silly.

Necros are a raid class, or solo.

Dots are slow to ramp up and always have been, look how you can help a group rather than try to dps, because you will never ever be good in a high dps group on group content.

60 seconds I hear is minimum for good Necros dps, that is not achievable in a proper laid out group.

Look how you can help maintain others, be it offtanking with pet or the like, or pulling even.

Adapt, because even if you tripled mob hp, that 8-12 sec mob would only be 30 sec, and that is still not enough dot ramp up time.

Suck it up and adapt to the group situation.

Instead of changing mob HP, why don't we look at changing DoTs? Currently, it is part of code for DoTs to tick every 6 seconds. Some games have DoTs that tick every second. That is still considered a DoT, right?

Necros have DoTs that you could consider even too long for soloing. They are useful for a newly created character, but lose their benefit with additional player power gains. I'd only use my Wounds line and Shadow line whenever I root rot 3-5 targets at the same time. If you stack too many DoTs on 1 target, than the NPC dies before they last their full duration.

I would even propose a highly unfavorable change to detrimental extension focuses. Maybe they should only work on debuffs, and not spells that only have a damage component. The lost damage at the end should be added back to the base damage per tick.

I really don't even want to respond to this thread, because I can't believe it's an actual thread.

With that being said... How many of you people that want more mobs with more HPs are raiders? Having even 1 raid toon in the group can make a considerable difference to the mobs hitpoints.

The group game should never be designed around raid geared characters. It should also not be designed around raid spells such as alliance. All this does is try and get spells nerfed like allliance to only work on raid mobs. This thread is counter productive in what the game actually needs.

As for the dot revamp that people ask about. I want to know why you care about it so much. Here is what will happen.

They will revamp it. It will be awesome. Necro's will get a major DPS boost. Then they will look and see what they did, they will nerf it. Necro's will be worse off then they are now. Then they will fix it and make necro's dps exactly what it is now; however, it will now require different mechanics to do the DPS. At the end of the day the necro dot revamp will become nothing but a burden.

Take for instance the rogue poison revamp. Worse thing ever. Instead of adding some extra dps. It just got calculated into the dps, and now it's just an extra headache to keep up with.

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

PS> Outside of necro's how is more mob HP going to increase DPS to any class that has to med? Now you can skip a mob and regin some mana back. With more hp mobs you won't get to really skip one when you need to; the dps of all classes will go down; except necro's/shammy's/enchanters and non mana/end classes like wars.

Making "pulling" relevant again was the reason given for the awful and unnecessary nerfs given to fades and forced movement abilities (including those that weren't used in pulling by anyone anywhere, ever). Extra HPs for mobs are the reason why players hated grinding giants in EoK for collection pieces or lymph nodes, and found ways to avoid bothering with Chardok's see invis bonus health golems.

I don't recall a single time that I wished killing a mob would take twice as long as usual.

I've mentioned in the Necro/SK DoT Revamp thread that even the nerfed Shaman, Druid, & Enchanter DoTs are way more powerful now than if no DoT revamp happened. The complaints are misdirected in most cases. Enchanters because of repeated nerfs to their class. Druids and Shamans because of … well … losing out on a new role they never excelled at before (Top tier DPS).

Necros, in general, do not expect a DPS increase. If history repeats itself, the initial change will be off the mark. However, I doubt that necros will be worse off after the final adjustments.

Very similar to your rogue situation with poisons being calculated into a rogues DPS, the necros have seen with DoT extensions being calculated into their DPS. Longer DoTs only means reduced base damage per tick. We have had DoT extensions through item focus, AAs, and potions. Dzarn has even done some reverse course correction on our AAs, changing ranks 4-6 of our Lingering Death AA to increased base damage instead of 3 extra ticks. This kind of change can be done again for ranks 1-3.

Amen

What's the difference between killing one in 60 seconds or 2 in 60 seconds if the exp gained is the same and the loot tables are modified for equivalent odds over time? What is it about higher hp mobs people don't like? I've yet to see an actual argument beyond people avoid higher hp mobs or they're boring. Why?

So far as I can tell, it's about people wanting instant gratification. They don't want to have to spend time moving from one place to another. They don't want see invis mobs. They don't want to play, they just want rewards like quickly clearing 10 place holders without having to work for it.

How about this princess... Going out and finding new mobs is mind numbing enough, sitting there waiting for a silly trash mob to die for 60s is absolutely .

Let's say we go with this, it will take an average group of casual filth 60s to kill a mob, it will take a raid group 20s (if that) to kill the same mob. Now, DBG in their infinite wisdom accounts for this with re-spawn timers. The average pathetic group will never get a quarter of the way through a camp before you get re-pops & once again, idiots will be back here crying endlessly about how unfair life is, and how you demand change & can't fathom why on earth DBG would have made you suffer through this absolute atrocity...

Want longer kills, spend more time killing golems.

Necro's aren't welcome in groups? get better necros.

As some wise soul has already said, this entire thread is a waste of time & space.

I had a hard time in the Overthere and Skyfire ( why the Drakes? ) the last few days. The named with their silencing and ae dots have me hanging on by my fingernails to continue playing this game.

If trash was harder to I would have hit cancel 6 times over.

The game is plenty hard.

With regards to your rudeness: It took me several reads to read through the negative comments, and understand the part that actually is an intelligent argument; my point being is that you are likely ruining it for yourself, in general. Foul language make people seem less intelligent and resourceful than they are, and perception is unfortunately everything. I am guessing you have some general anti-social tendencies that we are not going to fix in Forum Quest, but a bit of feedback has never hurt anyone.

Your 1:3 ratio DPS is most likely correct, I can see how the camp/respawn time design will influence access, for example through a dungeon, or in other contexts where the camp cannot be circumvented.

Now imagine for the sake of the argument that the designers make it so that one of the forts in Frontier Mountains has double HP Sarnaks, and also make sure that any named that pops in this fort also pop in a normal fort.

Now there is a completely free choice. No one is the worse off, if the low dps group want to hunt part of the fort, they can do that, if a high dps group want to hunt that entire fort, they can also do that.

I agree that if all mobs had 2-3 times the HP, it would be bad.