Lets be real, enchanters ruin early TLP play

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by thebeasttt112, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. Fumi-chan Augur

    Personally I love charming. But it does get a little silly how much people abuse them on early TLPs. If the charm debuff reduced a mob's damage done by 30%, that would probably help considerably plus also address the fact that both enchanters and necros can benefit hugely from current charm damage.

    Charm could still be useful, just not the runaway damage we currently see.
  2. Darchon_Xegony Augur

    Charm is good from Classic - GoD in Tipt/Vxed and then it's awful. OoW+ mobs generally deal only 60% or so of their normal damage when charmed.

    That's such a small portion of the server in the grand scheme of things it not really worth balancing around.
    discordkitty likes this.
  3. Machentoo Augur


    I certainly wouldn't make any global changes to charm based on the first few expansions. But i do wonder if they could add a damage modifier just to say the level 1-65 charm spells. Or apply the same oow+ debuff to earlier mobs.
    Flandersian likes this.
  4. Thorondor Augur

    I suspect the dps/HP penalty is already in as early as lvl 11 charm. Suspect it's the "npcusefullness stat on Lucy's raw spell data. Starts at 2% and climbs steadily to 50% with command of druzzil and then remains at 50 on all charmspells after.
  5. Thorondor Augur

    Highest lvl charm in classic is roughly 10% per my memory testing now maxhit unharmed on myself vs charmed against npcs a few years back. /slips back into retirement.
  6. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Charm pets on agnarr still wreck casual to mid geared players at tanking and dpsing... at the same time. Just go check out pof. Nothing has changed since Lguk.

    On mature servers, who really cares. But on tlp launches it is a bit ridiculous.
    Flandersian likes this.
  7. Thorondor Augur

    Which ranks are underadjusted though? The penalties associated with the charm pet are associated with the charm rebuff that goes onto the mob. I doubt anyone is concerned with the tuning of the lvl 11 charm spell, as it does negigibly more damage then the sword pet while only affecting mobs that are low enough level to still have paltry TO pools. The group centric approach to reviewing a charm let's strength is cool and all but which specific charm spells are at issue here and how do you propose enchanters be compensated for the hit that a low/mid/high level chanter would take to their solo and small group (duo/trio) viability? We get it, you dont want to be carried as much by a chanter in a full group but how do you propose dbg fix this without inadvertently breaking the enchater's primary means of progressing without "being carried" themselves. Remember, they don't have a necro/mages toolkit to fall back on if charm is rendered useless.

    Or, are we just throwing gripes out in the air with no quantifiable numbers/proposals. You do realize that when charm matures POP onwards, the penalties are so pronounced that by DODH charming is never used again by any enchanted in the know. The gripes seem to stem from people that don't actually play a charming class, don't really know the specifics of how the charm functions underwhelmingly progresses as the game progresses, and don't even really know the details about the features that are already in place mitigating a charm pet from operating at 100% efficiency as is. Before we go any further, how much do you actually know about the charm functionality as it is coded and progresses now?
  8. Flandersian Augur

    OP tries to state, correctly, that charm is super overpowered in early TLP servers and everyone in the thread says, "Yeah, but what about some expansion waaaaaay down the line where that isn't true?!?"

    Shut up, nerds. He's right and you know it. Nothing will be changed, but you can at least admit he's right.
    slayerofbats likes this.
  9. Flandersian Augur


    looking forward to footage of a couple monks killing dragons with autoattack on and afk.
  10. Machentoo Augur


    You could take charm away entirely and enchanters would not need to be carried. You bring plenty else to a group. (Not that I am advocating this, just, the idea that enchanters will be in some kind of dire straights if charm dps is lowered is laughable.)
  11. snailish Augur

    If you were redesigning the game... you might give enchanters one spell (druids an animal version and so on) to cast to determine if an NPC was charmable or not...

    ...and there would only be a tiny # of charmable NPC in any zone.

    Or just have a few npc in a zone call "a gullible skeleton, a gullible froglok bok knight, etc." Only gullible mobs can be charmed.


    I'd rather have a limited selection of strong charm pets vs. what was done OoW and later.


    Much of the TLP charm drama would go away if a handful of key named in early content were flagged uncharmable. A person willing to handle a charmed pet for sustained dps/tanking is working at it (not as hard as it once was, but still requires watching).
  12. Silias McKendrick Augur

    Enchanter OPness is easy fix. Nerf charm to only go as high as - 2 to 4 lvls below chanter. That would effectively lower dps, tanking ability, while not crippling the class. Add exception list to that rule for intended mobs that are used for raiding.

    Chanter would still be highly desired for cc, but if cc is not overly needed for a camp other dps become an option.
  13. slayerofbats Augur

    Yeppers, but you are talking about almost 20 year old gameplay. This was known as the Holy Trinity which in EQ was Warriors, Clerics, and Enchanters. They were ridiculous. There is not a single other class in the game that could tank the tougher raid content in the early expansions, other than the warrior. The best SK or Pally in the game would go splat in 2 seconds against tougher raid content. But a Warrior hits one disc key and they can tank it.

    Cleric: best healers by far. And Enchanters the ez mode mez and uber mana buffers with a good slow and some other good buffs too... Really if you want some balance, don't play classic EQ! Other games did it far better, although they suck in other ways. I think EQ got better in later expansions but that started to suck in other ways too.

    Think how I feel, I played a Necro... I wasn't needed in any group, I couldn't mez like a chanter, I couldn't provide any clarity, I couldn't tank, couldn't heal, and when picking a dps, people preferred a Druid or Wiz who could evac. Yet they would come begging to me later once they wiped somewhere and ask me to summon their corpses while I'm trying to solo at the start of some dungeon. Then later on they added the twitch spell and we stood around on raids spamming one spell on Clerics. I don't know if designers know the significance of this kind of thing, but I can tell you that it made me quit for this game for 13 years. I only returned last year and had some fun but it doesn't seem to suit me much anymore either.
  14. Rhodz Augur

    literally nothing ever changes here aint missing a thing
  15. HoodenShuklak Augur

    8 out of 10 Alchemists disagree.
  16. MaxTheLion Augur

    I'm hoping with all my might that charm gets nerfed and for any future server that comes out you rarely see any Enchanters around. Will be refreshing to see people gripe about the lack of mana regen or haste buffs available.
  17. HoodenShuklak Augur

    Shamans will go back up i popularity, slowing in classic miiiiight matter, and groups will care about balance alittle more. Heck, enc might have to mez adds!

    It sounds like classic!
  18. Rhodz Augur


    7 out 5 phrenologists say they are lying