TLP rog fix ideas

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by ryokoryu, Apr 8, 2018.

  1. ryokoryu Journeyman

    Classic era rog fix Ideas

    Ok so I have noticed with playing the Rogue class on the newest progression server that while understated how low their damage is if they use poisons, their DPS is still behind tanks at the same level with even decent gear. Another problem I have been noticing is people will start accusing you of stealing their loot if your in zone and they are not getting as much as they think they should be getting. The third issue I have seen is the rarity of most of the decent poison ingredients. Some like the wasp venom sack seem to be less than 1% in their drop rate. Pick pocket does not often yield much of anything and when I am in a group that is ok with me using it I tend to steal a lot of things I don't use. Research words that are no longer used in research for instance. Another issue is that in groups in the current culture of the progression server people will roll need on everything in the loot window that isn't no-trade. This leads to me not getting the poisons in groups more often than not. One of the ideas that will at least partially address these issues is a revamp of the pick pocket skill and it's function. The idea begins with the alt-currency tab and the addition of a rogue specific currency and vendors for that currency at rogue guilds. Pick pocket instead of nabbing something from the loot of the mob would grab from a separate table items which do not sell for standard money, but rather sell to the alt-vendor for rogues to get their special currency. These items would be determined on spawn just like the normal loot table, also this would allow for rogue specific tasks to gain some currency.

    Once that part is set, the poison crafting issues can be addressed. At these vendors one could get poison ingredients with higher tier ones being more expensive. Ingredients not already available off the poison supply merchants would be here as the plat cost is important although still too high for the function of the craft in this era. In addition the vendor would grant us access to the coffin poison vial so as to help us not dedicate our entire inventory to a few shots of poison or remove the coffin poison vial altogether and allow our poisons to stack in inventory. Next revamp some of the damage numbers on the damaging poisons or add higher damage poisons than we have in this era. Obviously the up front shock poisons should be left alone but we could use some bump to the damage over time poisons and the bane poisons could use about a 50% bump at the higher tier. Finally another idea for poison crafting is add augment recipes for weapons that give us better dots than strike of necessity. Rogue only augs would give a decent bump to hopefully put us above tanks in terms of damage. The ingredients to these new augs should be sold on the alt-currency vendor.
  2. snailish Augur

    Rogues are almost working as originally intended, albeit stronger than they would have been originally.

    What skews the perception is that everyone else is even more overpowered. Rogues (and Paladins) were always the least-played classes on servers when we had any sort of reliable census data. This isn't because players didn't like the idea of the classes.

    Putting a poison tuned to classic era that gives rogues a slight bump on the melee aug vendors is probably a reasonable compromise.

    Though it doesn't acknowledge that we actually need early progression tuned way harder, not classes buffed up more.

    Rogues specifically lost a fair bit of utility in the no-corpse recovery game. Not that dragging bodies was necessarily fun (and you still get to do it in zone for your group at times). Some of this has been addressed by making lockpick more-needed. As the "scout" class the argument has always been solid that the utility ability of basic track (as per bards) could be given to rogues.
  3. Kattria Minx Augur

    Don't stress about pickpocket. Your skill is low enough you aren't able to really put a dent in the shared loot table. Especially since this server is a weird "need everything" setting, you need that picked coin and vendor loot to buy your poison mats. Very soon people simply will not care about how much coin drops.

    Rogues are a lot of fun to play and do amazing damage. Get the right weapons, make sure you evade (during battle, click hide every time it refreshes), stock up on potions (healing, alacrity), and have fun backstabbing everything you can.
  4. Accipiter Old Timer

    Didn't they implement a separate pickpocket loot table?
  5. Bobbybick Only Banned Twice

    Pretty sure rogues created that rumor.
    Genoane, Hapinin and Sumonerr_Tunare like this.
  6. Kattria Minx Augur

    No. There may at one point in time been a separate loot table. I do know that at one time we could pick magic items. We also could give items to mobs. Very funny to see Trakanon drop a rusty dagger. :)

    But current state of the game is that we cannot pick magic items, we cannot give items to mobs, and anything picked comes from the shared loot table (coin plus non-magic items).
  7. Hapinin New Member

    Rogue damage is low but not as low as a tank when backstabbing lol.
    If you take away the Monks, rogues would actually be top top DPS overall thru a lot of these early expansions with exception of a few classes that get their FOTM expansions.

    As for pickpocketing. Man does it rock come Kunark when you start getting some good gems off the mobs :p. I always rolled with guild groups that grand out leveling in long sessions and pickpocketing I feel is a loss of DPS so I don't do it all too often.

    If you want to get your skill up, pickpocket the translocator over and over again. I think it still works where you get skill with no risk of being attacked by anything.
  8. ryokoryu Journeyman

    Not only did the players get a boost, the mobs also got an HP boost and with an SBD backstabbing I am doing half the damage or less on average than the SK with a 2hander, worse if that 2hander is is a mithril. According to gameparse I land about 30% of my backstabs on xp giving mobs and the skill is maxed. Placing the boost on poisons allows for a bit less randomness. On the rare occasions I land all my backstabs for higher values I destroy but that is such an unreliable thing that it is hardly a milestone to measure by. I can't even afford a current level aug I am using a level 20 one.
  9. snailish Augur

    I know of no boost to mob HP, outside of the expansion specific (poor) design of Luclin having massive HP amounts. --Unless you are referring to the various mitigation things done to raid targets?

    Rogue itemization isn't great in original. Many progression rogues are born (or at least leveled) in Kunark.

    My prior suggestion of an original era poison on the melee augs for a slight boost for just rogues would expect that to be a cheap thing. Yes, the melee augs can be pricey at some level bumps, but there are a few legit ways a level 10 could spend a long day farming and scrape up some plat. These ways are only faster if you are higher level.
  10. Zansobar Augur

    Rogues are the easiest class to "fix" since their role is pure melee dps and a large part of their dps comes from backstab and they are the only ones that can backstab. Therefore, all you have to do is increase the backstab damage on items that drop over the first 3 to 5 expansions, or whatever the time frame is that rogues are lackluster. But to truly fix the melee game you have to move monk dps down to where it should be also, or else you will just create a bunch of overpowered rogues (since their dps should always be higher than monks due to the positional nature of it and that dps is a rogue's only role).
  11. ryokoryu Journeyman

    The boost to mob HP happened back on the original progression servers, the ones that fires of heaven zerged naggy vox and phinny week 2 with 200+ people across 3 raids and then went backto WoW. It was done because of the DD and DoT revamps and they put the melee augs in to compensate. Monks at that time did not have their boosted h2h values and used 2hb usually. This was well before fippy opened up.
  12. Machentoo Augur


    I believe Prathun confirmed it not too long ago. (Maybe it is wishful misremembering.)
  13. Bobbybick Only Banned Twice

    I know for sure that coin takes directly from the mobs original loot table. I assume that gems/words/etc follow the same rule.
  14. Machentoo Augur


    Yeah, from what I recall, it was in the context of gems in pohate.
  15. tuttles Augur

    classic poisons suck, 1 charge 1 proc... save your coin until luclin
  16. snailish Augur

    There's a big difference between tuning a few raids and a global mob HP boost.
  17. fransisco Augur

    Its not that rogues need a boost, its that a other classes are OP. Boosting rogues wouldn't change all the other classes that are overshadowed by things like monk fists.
  18. ryokoryu Journeyman

    it wasn't a few raid mobs, it was most mobs in luclin back to classic. The reason given was that with the changes to direct damage and damage over time efficiency the change was needed to keep the game challenging. By the way it was needed to do so, unfortunately some classes just weren't boosted to an equal level to maintain their competitive edge. When the changes to direct damage spells hit I was chain nuking with my necro because the DoTs were just inefficient incomparison at the time. Using this method I was killing yellows using only 1/3 my mana and a dot kite took almost all of it. This was in the mid 40's when the only statted gear I had on was a pair of bat skull earrings. The Dot revamp was soon after and it was even easier.
  19. Valk07 New Member

    From what I understand rogue poisons are revamped in Planes of Power. Why not include the revamp in Classic or Kunark? This would help out Rogues a bit I think. That and perhaps increase their skill caps on piercing/dual wield/double attack to match monks at 50/60.
  20. tuttles Augur

    nope you understand wrong on poisons
    1. Classic Rogue Poisons until Luclin (1 charge = 1 proc) (apply poison skill poisons)
    2. Luclin Rogue Poisons -- These are the first proc buff poisons... ~15min duration unlimited procs, if you do the Master poison trophy quest, you can stack them in 5 and 10 dose stacks
      • Bite of the Shissar (Strike Poison) = 125dmg
      • Mayong Bane (Undead DD) = 175dmg
      • Scoraie Venom (concussion) = 75dmg + 1sec stun
      • there are more
    3. POP - adds a few alternate recipes for luclin poisons using planar essence
      • Unless they screw up again and accidentally leave the poison vendors in again, otherwise vendor poisons are not available until underfoot
      • Adds free scoraie venom clicky on ornate legs (summon 5 charges of no drop 75dd poison)
    4. LOY - some new low level poisons, atk slow (resist rate makes it terrible)
    5. LDON - catacombs raid instance gloves with clicky strike poison buff (no more making poisons!!!)
    6. Omens - next new poison recipe with a whopping proc dmg of 150
    7. DoN-PoR - i never found any recipes worth making
    8. TSS/TBS/SOF - havent found any recipes from this era
    9. SOD -- I believe this is when we will get Poison Revamp with emulsifiers, Monk Bane, Archer's Bane, Poisons with different resist checks and good damage -- proc buff with X amount of triggers, can be made by players
    10. Underfoot - this is when Vendor Poisons should get returned to vendors
    So like 12 expansions, or roughly 2 years of using Strike Poison (unless you wanna farm pyrllien blood for 25 extra dmg... hard pass)