Mob Debuff Cap - Solutions/Suggestions

Hey folks,

It's time to really discuss something that needs to be improved. With all the dot revamps and alliances being implemented over the past 2 expansions we are sitting in a precarious situation with the Debuff Cap limitations (we have been here for awhile).

I have heard things such as "The Debuff Cap can't be increased because it creates stability issues past where it is now."

I have no idea if that is true or not and I certainly understand that given the games age and current code it's probably not overly simply to just change say 30 memory allocations to allow for a Debuff Cap increase, however something has to give.

We have to either be told that you will work on a way with the current game limitations to increase the Debuff Cap or we have to get creative.

Suggestions (no particular order just going off the top of my head / feel free to expand)

- Necro dot consolidation (I know this is a rehashed issue but one we were told was coming)

- All Class Debuff consolidation (Ex - Enchanter Tash and Lingering Cry taking 2 slots / Cripple + Somnolence - Shaman debuffs - Druid debuffs etc etc. We have tons of examples where simply consolidating these things to utilize 1 slot instead of multiple would help)

- Separate Debuff and DPS based stuff into 2 separate windows - I understand this could still have the same argument as the current memory allocation however I'm trying to think of ways that may work given current limitations.

EX - ONE DEBUFF WINDOW ONLY FOR DEBUFF / TANK RELATED ABILITIES
- ONE DEBUFF WINDOW ONLY DPS ORIENTATED STUFF

Please understand this is purely from a standpoint of improvement for the game. The devs have gone and implemented some really cool things (such as alliances), however with the current state of the game and trying to squeak every once out of every class possible, from a raid leader perspective it really sucks to have to micro manage and tell Class A NOT to use xyz so Class B can pull their potential all while still hitting the cap anyways.

Basically we have to figure out a way for the Debuff Cap to no longer be an issue. It's long overdue.

I personally would much rather see the debuff cap issue being discussed and acknowledged rather than things like spelling mistakes, changed item names, messing around with guild roster display window etc being addressed on patches. Maybe it is internally and just not publicly, but something has to give Devs.

/rant off

Id love to see this happen, but its been brought up many times, and devs either ignore it, or say working as intended, or not gonna happen ever.

But i completly agree with everything you said. Most raiding alliances dont use alliance at all because of debuff cap.

This needs to happen desperatly. The players want it, but unfortunatly this is one of those things where the devs are just going to ignore us. But dont be alarmed, im sure we will get an alliance upgrade next expansion which we cant use as well!

Working as intended!

To be honest, Necro DoT consolidation alone would alleviate much of this problem. It wouldn't solve it completely, but it'd be a big help for sure. That just seems to be something the devs flat out refuse to even comment on these days, though. While I do agree something SHOULD for sure change, outside of the Necro revamp that was mentioned a good while back, realistically I don't see much else ever happening.

More (debuff)Slots!!!

If they had only revamped necro dots, going from 20 to say 12 that might have been the case. But now they made it so classes that never used dots or only maybe 1-2 now all want or do try and use multiple dots. Plus they added in alliances for every class and made some stuff always on the mob like monks tiger claw debuff. So revamping necros at this point really doesn't solve this as most likely necros will still have 10 or 12 dots to use so the few freed up are just used up immediately by other stuff.

They did the complete opposite of what should have been done. They went from having a problem with debuff slots and then made it way way worse. As they now have 20 more dots casted on mobs from people that used to not dot and then for and giggles added alliances for most classes that require a debuff slot. And in over 2 years still haven't reduced necros down the the 12.

One thing I am curious about is if they can assign debuff slots by mob type. For general group game mobs/trash this is a non issue. If I remember correctly, the big issue with just adding more debuff slots to all mobs is the processing complexities of every mob in EQ having larger number of debuff slots.

For example, if mob type=RAID, then debuffslots=base slots+X slots.

Give the mob a short term debuff window just like players get short term buff window.

Even if just for things like alliances or as an example off the top of my head, Ranger "Called Shot's" debuff.

Edit: I wonder if this could create issues for classes like Beastlord that trigger Alliance off their dots? The debuff being in a different "window?" We can't go on breaking things...

On one hand fixing this would be pretty cool. On the other it means DPS for dot classes would go up.

The necro consolidation doesn't alleviate it as much as people believe. It would have before the Dot revamps and implementation of alliances etc. Would it help? Yes but at this point I don't think it is ever coming.

Before those changes we routinely saw the debuff cap hit with 3 necros and other classes utilizing what they should be.

BARD - Alliance + Insults = 1 slot for fulmination
BEASTLORD - Alliance + 2 Dots = 3 lots for fulmination
BERSERKER - Alliance + Melee strikes = 1 slot for fulmination
ENCHANTER - Alliance + Nukes = 1 slot for fulmination
MAGICIAN - Alliance + Nukes = 1 slot for fulmination
MONK - Alliance + Melee strikes = 1 slot for fulmination
NECRO - Alliance + 2 Dots min = 3 slots for fulmination
PALADIN - Alliance + Crush?? = 1 slot for fulmination
RANGER - Alliance + Nukes = 1 slot for fulmination
ROGUE - Alliance + Poison Procs = 1 slot?? for fulmination
SHADOWKNIGHT - Alliance + Taps = 1 slot for fulmination
WIZARD - Alliance + Nukes = 1 slot for fulmination

**May not be 100% accurate**


That's an additional 16 slots used at any given time just for alliances and for them to be able to be used. Now we could argue for the dot classes those 4 slots were used anyway so lets call it 12 additional slots (not really because with the cap issue and 3 necros you could argue no beastlord dot/alliance / also obviously what is prudent changes depending on your guild (raid roster makeup) which even further solidifies why the cap issue needs addressed).

My biggest issue is IF increasing the debuff cap total is not feasible or difficult, then they really need to find a way to reduce the clutter on a mob. The easiest way I can see to do that is the following

Tash + Lingering Cry = 2 slots (make this 1)
Cripple + Somnolence = 2 slots (make this 1)
Druid debuff - *5 total atm?? (reduce this to 1 that does everything)
Shaman debuffs - *3 or 4? (reduce this to 1 that does everything)
+other classes stuff where this works

That is an easy *8 slots gained just from consolidating debuff slots and that doesn't even scratch the surface of the potential this could have.This is something I know personally enchanters have brought up to devs multiple times about our own personal debuffs and it has been flat out ignored.

-Give tanks a seperate window where aggro stuff lands only

-Pure debuffs like tash etc its own window

-DPS based stuff its own window

There are tons of ways I believe its possible to alleviate this issue however one solution shouldn't be telling certain classes don't use xyz. That shouldn't even be a discussion or else they should of never gave alliance or dot revamps to anyone.

Also its a pure fallacy to start a response with it will increase Dot DPS. It doesn't increase anything but potential overall GUILD DPS, but the potential exists anyways. The biggest current issue is for raid leaders it needs to be micro managed or stack classes with limited debuff issues to create a situation where DPS isn't cannibalized for other classes.

That is flat out stupid.

They could just lower the maximum allowed on raids going into future expansions. They could tune events around a 28 man raid.I believe they were going to do this a few years ago.

You'd be incorrect about that.

https://www.engadget.com/2008/07/23/everquest-slashing-raid-size-in-new-expansion/

LOL...

I like the idea of a debuff window and a damage/dot window

Imo, they should look into change how dots works.

They should make so ALL present dots do NOT work on raid mobs.

Then give all the classes that got dots between 2-6 raid dots that only works on raid mobs, not on group mobs.

Seperate debuffs from dots.

All the dots should be linked so you cannot cast a lvl 105 dot on a mob already having a lvl 110 on from you.

--------------------------------------------

This however a big job, but could made simpler so only do for necro, limiting them to 6 raid dots per expansion.

Limiting the amount of necro dots would help on the limited amount of slots a mob got.

That's okay, just give them the shaman/druid treatment.

28 seems like an awfully arbitrary number

To me it makes the most sense especially like I said previously it's probably not as simple as say taking 30 memory allocations after *arbitrary allocation number* 87 (88-117) and making those 30 extra Debuff slots (hypotethical) because it means moving what was in 88-117 to other memory allocations and ensuring they work correctly after.

I think this would make necros even worse. They are already needless complex (which stops new/returning players from picking up the class).