I have a friend who recently started and we were really excited for him to hit level 75 so we could start grouping together. Excited to get him leveled up to 100-ish so we can actually do content that is exciting for both of us with both of us contributing (and not just me Powerleveling him). He had a great time leveling up to 65+ going the Crescent Reach route. 75-85 wasn't too bad, I pulled grounds and we knocked it out in a few hours. But then exp took a serious dive. Despite moving to the Valley to keep the mobs red, and despite pulling 20+ mobs at a time and melting them in seconds, he's still getting crap exp overall. It took us about 50 minutes to finish all three DH HAs (I'm rusty, lol), and in the end I think he made about 10% per run...so ~30% of a level in an hour. Next we tried the level 90 daily from Teak, in Fear Itself. Again, despite melting everything in our path in seconds, it still took 30 minutes before we had killed 5 boogeyman for the task. (I can not imagine appropriately geared/level players doing this task - rofl). The bottom line for us is that it is taking far too long to be able to really play together. Me PLing him isn't fun for either of us, and I can tell that he is losing interest despite his best effort. At 1-3 hours per level, depending on how robotic we can be, we're looking at up to 50 more hours of this BS before he is able to do anything besides tag along and try not to get hurt. And now we see why people want to pay for PL services and use bots... I know EoK exp is super fast (and will likely be nerfed in a month when RoS releases). But by nerfing EXP in older zones, DBG have really made it difficult to bring new players into Live servers. How do you convince players, who are starting to hit the boredom wall, that buying an expansion they can't really play in for another 20 levels is the answer?
Hey yeah I have an 87 enc/wiz/mag box and I was having similar troubles of smashing content & still leveling slow. I investigated a bit and lesson + the HA turn ins + dailies are where it's at. 1. Grab the Franklin Teek daily kill quest 2. Do the Clayton Teek daily HA 3. Learner's aura & Pop Lesson right before the finale. You get double xp for the HA completion itself & the daily bonus. 4. immediately port to the daily kill quest and mop up the 5 mobs. This gets me like 30%+ of a level at 86-87 in maybe an hour of playing time. the regular way we used to level is comparatively way slow tho as best i can tell. My box setup is similar though, so if you wanna compare notes on macros or talk about kill speed or having difficulty with named mobs, hit me up. Correct macros & strategies and stuff im always interested. P.S. powerleveling is definitely a heavy crutch in this game. I grouped with a beastlord at 85 and the next day they were 98.
Also! @Wrathfire: Just outta curiosity, are you able to do 3 wiz mercs and use your druid as the main heals with that setup, or do you end up using your druid as ADPS and include a cleric merc?
Too much denial. Grinding through a HA by yourself is boring and a chore. There is nobody to group with. It is also not as fun as the game used to be in the past when you could get groups and do dungeons that were really fun like Sebilis and Chardok and stuff. Now I grind and grind and grind by myself all to make half a level. Boxing lets you do more but it doesn't make it any more fun. There are still some HAs I haven't tried but they are probably too high level for me. I just need to find motivation to grind to them but mostly I've been playing other games.
What denial? I am in a guild, we raid, we group for stuff. But I am also currently running up a mage up the levels, and mainly use HAs. I can knock one out in about 30 min, and with Teek bonus, getting 30-40% of a level per HA is common. In a given night, I'll often knock out an HA, then run a couple prog quests in TDS or EoK, either by myself with merc or with guild mates. When I was boxing my druid/chanter combo, I mainly did HA, but I also got epic 2.0 for chanter and epic 1.5 for druid, got chanter to 300 in all TS except fletching (13 skill ups to go), finished Aid Grimel and Eron's. Sure, if I were just grinding Gribbles, that would bore me outta my mind. The key is to vary it with fun struff. But HAs, especially with Teek bonus, propel you through levels at an insane rate.
Its not denial if someone enjoys the grind and the accomplishments of putting in the time. I lived in the gribble HA's for what seems like forever finally getting my first maxed toon ever. Then I started boxing and spent even more time doing gribble after gribble as I maxed out another 5 toons. I then proceeded to max out 3 buff bots (level only not AA's) and then 3 more combat toons. I will admit it was repetitive but at the same time seeing my small army grow in power putting in the time it felt rewarding to me and has set me up to be able to branch out and tackle content I would not have otherwise been able to take on. Not everyone has warm fuzzy feelings of early EQ grouping. My experience was one of frustration and lots of standing around waiting in a queue for a spot to open. Add in ninja looting, immature personalities, and lots of other things (see the TLP threads for multiple examples) and I will take boxing any day of the week over reliving that era of EQ. I have plenty of in game social interactions with various people that I have befriended over the years to fill the social aspect of the game. I enjoy the trade skills, economics, exploration, questing and pretty much every aspect of this game even if I am doing it by myself I never feel alone during my adventures because of the great server I play on and the good conversations I have with others during my grind.
It's not too slow, players are too impatient and expect the game to be instant gratification like the watered down MMOs they've played before. If one wishes, you can level up extremely fast or at a relaxed rate; the trade-off for doing it fast, however, is generally going to be repetitiveness to some degree. What makes EQ a rewarding game is that you actually have to invest some time into it in order to advance; you cannot just put in 30 minutes a day and be max level in a week. Also, there is nothing stopping you from grouping and playing together with your friend; you just will not be doing it in the top end levels after just a week or so of casual playing. That said, there are innumerable things that you can do with your friend in the 75-100 range for fun while you are also leveling them up that will advance their character in other ways.
You can always just bring him to TDS or EOK and kill there to avoid the experience drop. As far as developers are concerned, players shouldn't power level... But of course we all know that is garbage, as there are no groups available in lower levels and there is a complete break in the game between 70 and 105 in terms of being able to make progress by yourself. Everquest is very fun up to about 70 or so, when you could level relatively fast and get equipment just with a mercenary. But then once you're 75, the game becomes more like work than play, and that's when most new players quit. What the game actually needs is a major reworking of 75 to 100, like World of Warcraft had, but I doubt the developers have the resources for it.
It is not reasonable for any MMORPG to require doing repetitive time sinks for months to get to the level where you can actually find groups. People wonder why Everquest has no new players - well, this is one of the reasons. Not to mention you cannot do heroic adventures "molo" with many of the classes in the game, so the only options those classes have is to beg for PLing and equipment on general chat. I can guarantee you - nobody wants to pay to beg. This is why 99% of new players are actually either returning players, or people who receive PLing from the friends who got them into the game, and who are then dependent on the commitment of those friends to get anywhere. I agree with the guy above who said that people who think Everquest's 1 to 105 game is not broken, are in denial. It is possible to get from 1 to 105 with a single character, with certain classes, and knowledge of the game. Indeed, it's probably not even very hard for those of us who know what we're doing. But it is a very tedious and painful experience for anyone who is just starting out and who isn't into PLing, because there is a long stretch of the game, right now, that is completely broken as a game.
Good points, Gnomeland. However, just to clarify, the OP said he was three-boxing, which is a totally different thing than solo/molo and begging for groups. With a three-box, you can just do your own HA/Teek/quest/progression/etc.
I notice that OP did not get back to this thread yet. I would be interested to know where exactly has OP done his 83-84 leveling and in what manner. What mercs were being run? What tasks undertaken? Dailies? HAs? Or was it just straight out grind? In what zones? At 85 you can do the real easy quest in Feerrott that unlocks J5 mercs, they are a fair bit more capable than J1. But you could also do SoD progression and have unlocked J2 or J3 or better mercs by now, in addition to earning Paragon gear.
I disagree with your premise, but it doesn't take anyone months to level to Max in EQ. Heroic Adventures are not intended to be done solo or molo. The classes who can are generally the same ones who can also solo or molo some names. The game is fine some players are just whiny and want everyone handed to them without putting in any time or effort.
Everquest is one giant time sink. Artisan's prize, Alaran tear, Shawl, trade skills, leveling, questing, AA grinds, gearing, epic (to a lesser extent if you are high level), achievements, just to name a few. If someone is discouraged by the "time sink" of leveling then they probably are not meant for this game in general. Levels and AA's are the easy part imo. There is so much good information in the forums and also some guides posted online if someone spends the time to sift through the information. Finding a more active guild, befriending others, boxing, trying new zones to xp grind in are all options. I have suggested more times than I can count that the higher level person who is having difficulty finding a higher level player to group with look to the lower levels and help them catch up to form a potential grouping partner. People often get frustrated when those above them wont help them out but in tern they forget that there are those under them that are frustrated also and would like some help.
We need to make the game more appealing to new players because I'm tired of listening to the same opinions from the same people. This is "The Newbie Zone" and if somebody posts here, they clearly have a problem. Help answer it, add to it, or move on. But you're not helping anybody by trivializing their problems and calling them whiny. That's more like something a bully would do.
Those are all great suggestions and tips for new players. I remember times when I couldn't reach max level before the next expansion came out. It felt like I was always left behind, and falling further and further behind because of it. It is so easy to stay at the top, once you're there. And it's so easy to level up your 2nd toon, once you've got your first one maxed. But if you've played since the beginning and never had to play the catch up game, then you don't know how daunting it can be. It was daunting for me when I returned 5 years ago, and new players today have 5 more expansions worth of content to slug through!
No, we don't. We need to keep it attractive to existing players and the changes you want will not do that. If you want an MMO that is like every other one Out there go play that. If you want a game that requires some effort and time investment you play EQ. There is a reason it is still around after all this time and it is not because everyone gets Max level in a day.. Also, there are few posts claiming it is hard or slow to level up.. The people who make them and regurgitate them all ignore the multitude of suggestions and methods to level faster. No amount of changing EQ is going to bring in enough new players to make up for the ones that would be lost from those same changes.
Considering my first ever max level toon was at the tail end of COTF I understand how overwhelming this game can be. I still have so many achievements and progression I have not even started. To date I have beaten only a couple of expansions and none of them are from the last 5 years. I have half of TDS and COTF done, two zones in ROF, Teir 1 and 2 zones from HOT and VOA and not a single quest from EOK completed. Every time I start working on one thing I realize I need to work on something else and end up changing my focus. Hero's Journey is about 80% completed but I just got burnt out doing it. I am not someone who has been at the top (and still am not at the top) coming on here making suggestions. I have had my fair share of frustration over the years but in the end I am still here plugging along and love this game. This game is not very forgiving to those who want instant gratification. It can be like a second job at times which is what it is. If that turns people away I don't know how to change that outside of just granting everyone all the old quest rewards but I think that would be a mistake in itself.
Who are these mythical players that would be lost? Old players, like yourself, that have already done the grind long ago, when it was much easier? Old players who are going back and playing for the enjoyment of grinding through it again? Are you saying that there are existing players who would be upset and leave the game at the prospect of being able to level up from 80 to 100 with less of a grind? Or are you saying that there are players who would leave at the prospect of a level 105 toon being able to play with a level 80 toon and still get a reasonable/enjoyable reward for both players? I think we all agree that EQ is a time sink, and that we continue to play for reasons other besides that initial leveling grind. What is being suggested is putting more emphasis on the other reasons we play, and not letting that initial grind become too much of a barrier to discovering those other reasons.
Easier? LOL the grind at ALL levels was harder in the past not easier. Today 80-100 today is like what 80-85 was in SoD. There are players all over the place that don't like how fast levels go now. Some dont like it because new players don't learn anything about their classes. Then there are those who enjoy and want to say in those level ranges, so making it even faster is their last desire. I know tons of people who have multiple accounts filled with toons solely because they enjoy making alts and leveling up, but have no interest in the playing at Max level. Also, a level 105 and, when RoS comes out, a level 110 can already group and level together while having fun. You want to play a game that is fundamentally different from EQ. The "grind" and timesinks are what makes EverQuest EverQuest. Removing them makes it a different game entirely. If you want something that you get Max level in a week or two and Max AAs another week after that then you are playing the wrong game. The only mythical players are the new ones who are suddenly going to come to EQ by making it instant gratification.
Ha, back in the days when I thought I knew what I was doing and figured I could lead a guild! We didn' do too bad, just ran into all family style guild problems - inconsistent count of people for raids We ran east TOV though like champs!
